#233 | Esophageal Atresia: When Liz Eidelman's Baby Was Born "Incompatible With Life"

I looked up and I said to one of these sneaky nurses, I said she's throwing up a lot like, Is that normal? And she came over and looked at it and she goes, You have you had polyhydramnios, right? I saw on your chart and I was like, Yeah. And she was like, I think we need to take the baby to get looked at. And then they came, someone came to take her to the NICU. Another hour goes by and they say, okay, mom, okay, Dad, we're going to take you down to the NICU now to see baby. I'm like, okay, so they get me in a wheelchair. And they take me to the NICU at this point, I'm two hours postpartum, I have no idea what they're doing to the baby. Why? No clue. They park me at the NICU and the nurse that parked my wheelchair, looked at one of the other nurses and said they don't know. And the room kind of went silent.

I'm Cynthia Overgard, owner of HypnoBirthing of Connecticut, childbirth advocate and postpartum support specialist. And I'm Trisha Ludwig, certified nurse midwife and international board certified lactation consultant. And this is the Down To Birth Podcast. Childbirth is something we're made to do. But how do we have our safest and most satisfying experience in today's medical culture? Let's dispel the myths and get down to birth.

Liz Eidelman
Hi, I'm Liz. I am a mother of two from New Jersey and a content creator on Instagram, where you can find me cracking all kinds of mom jokes. But beneath that humor, there's actually a whole lot that's gone on since I've become a mom. And I want to thank you Cynthia and Trisha for not only giving me an opportunity to talk about my experiences, but for all the really important work that you guys do for women. So thank you for having me today.

Cynthia Overgard
We're very happy to have you, Liz. You're one of the funniest accounts on Instagram. And the irony is you have a very intense birth story to share. But why don't you tell everyone your page first?

Liz Eidelman
I do. Yes. So you can find me on Instagram at Liz Eidelman my last name is EIDEL ma N Liz Eidelman and I am an aspiring doula you can follow my newest page which is at birth your way NJ.

Trisha Ludwig
All right, Liz. Well, I only know you from your hilarious content. On Instagram. I know nothing about your birth story. And I don't we? Why don't we share?

Liz Eidelman
Yes. So I'm going to be telling the story today of my first daughter. Indeed she is for I had a very textbook pregnancy with her up until about 28 weeks. I remember on Christmas Eve it was that I took myself to labor and delivery, right around 20 weeks because I was having these contractions. And so I ran to l&d, I was under the care of like, OB and a big corporate group. So I ran to labor and delivery. And they said to me, they did an ultrasound, the disc cervical check. And they were like, you know, it just seems like you have a very angry uterus. And I was like, oh, what does that mean? And they were like, you have a condition called polyhydramnios. There's a lot of excess amniotic fluid around the baby. And this can mean like a number of things. But we're gonna send you home on modified bed rest. Right now. It's not making any changes to your cervix. So we're going to send you home and you're going to follow up with your OB,

Cynthia Overgard
did you tell them you don't have an angry anything?

Liz Eidelman
I didn't, but I'd love to call them now after listening to the down to birth show.

Cynthia Overgard
I just I can't stand when they do that with language, but it doesn't even make any sense. What is an angry

Trisha Ludwig
uterus?

Cynthia Overgard
Why is that even supposed to mean?

Liz Eidelman
I know it. I mean, I guess it was so like, irritated that it was contracting a lot and I will be honest, they gave me some IV fluids. And that seemed to help kind of calm things down a little bit, physically, but mentally I was like, What is going on here? They just sent me home on modified bed rest on Christmas Eve. Okay,

Trisha Ludwig
so maybe you didn't actually have an angry uterus. You were just a little dehydrated. That might have been a better way to approach it

Liz Eidelman
could have been Yes. And I'm sure all the fluid around the baby really didn't help. So fast forward, I went to my OB I followed up and they confirmed that the fluid level was still higher than normal and that I would be having weekly ultrasounds. So from weeks 28 to 36 I had ultrasounds once a week at maternal fetal medicine. And every time you know, everything looked good with the baby, the baby seemed fine. And they told me I don't remember the exact statistic but the doctor had said like listen 60% of the time this is because a mom has gestational diabetes achieved don't 30% of the time, it's for like no reason at all. So that's probably what it is, or 10% of the time, it signifies a problem with the baby. But your baby looks good, right? So we never really thought anything of it. They took me off of that modified bed rest, because I was just kind of living with this angry uterus, and we were fine. And we fast forward the last couple of weeks, my blood pressure began to creep up. And when very early labor was beginning at 39, plus two, I believe it was with lots of fluid and my angry uterus. I ran to the hospital thinking that it was time. And it turns out that I went way too early. So they checked me I was only two centimeters. And they had said, like, at this point, we might have sent you home. But since your BP is a little high, we're going to keep you and they started with the whole like, we're going to do this, we're going to do that. Your blood pressure. Yes, yes, my blood pressure was a bit high. It wasn't preeclampsia high, but it was high enough to be considered gestational hypertension. So at the time, you know, I was so happy to be staying and like happy to have this induction because I just wanted to meet my baby. And I truly went into this first birth with a like, roll with the punches do whatever they say kind of attitude. So they started me on a pill to ripen my cervix. And then the following morning, they began to Pitocin and a few hours into the Pitocin, who was begging for the epidural. So they broke my water. And that was crazy, because there was so much fluid. I will backtrack and say that amniotic fluid levels like AFI readings are, I believe, between five and 25 is considered normal. Now with my second baby who was who was healthy spoiler alert, the first one wasn't my second baby, the amniotic fluid index never went over 14 That was the highest reading we ever got. For my first daughter, it was consistently at 25 or over. And I believe the highest reading we ever got was like a 32. So I was real big. And we thought I'm only five feet tall. Like we joked that maybe the baby had nowhere to go. And I just carry really big, right. So when they broke my water, it was so much fluid, it was like it was crazy. And it was after that it was really like a typical cascade of interventions I would come to realize. So as soon as I dilated fully, I was instructed to do some practice pushes to bring the baby down, which I realize now was kind of like the cause of everything that transpired until my baby was born. So I ultimately I pushed for three hours, and an OB came in who I had never met. So like I said, I was with a big corporate group. And I had met a lot of the Opie's in my office, but I hadn't met the ones from other offices. So of course, she was someone from another office who I had never met. The room was flooded with med students. I mean, there had to be like a dozen people in there. And I felt like a circus freak, honestly. But I thought very little of this all in the moment. And I only really recognize those feelings after I had fully processed my birth story. It was a Friday night, and the people that were attending my birth were all clearly getting bored because this was taking a long time. Most notably the OB who had one hand at my perineum and use the other hand to like text and play Candy Crush, I cannot. I can't Candy Crush, I kid you not.

Cynthia Overgard
The doctor was playing Candy Crush. What kind of what? This is what this? This is what this doctor does in their free time. Trisha, when you and I are reading all the research about birth, by the way, right? They're addicted to Candy Crush, they can't even put it down when a woman is in labor. Yeah, think about that.

Liz Eidelman
Yep, it was like make it more obvious that you don't that you want to be anywhere. But here please. And I

Cynthia Overgard
made that comment about me and Trisha because I you know, just this morning I was reading articles of Rachel read like there is so many. There are so many hardworking people out there actually trying to figure out whatever research is out there that's good quality to see what is best for women and how to improve maternal health. And this is the person that society calls the the only expert not not an expert, the expert. Like you know, either you're a doctor or you're not a doctor, but they're playing Candy Crush.

Trisha Ludwig
I'm sorry, but it's just a whole nother level when they're doing it while touching your body. Like it's one thing we know this goes on in the call room or in the nurse's station or the wherever the providers are hanging out when they're not with the woman but to be there at your

Cynthia Overgard
side shows they're addicted. Yeah, that's what it shows and you know what's going

Trisha Ludwig
on? shows that they're addicted, it shows that they have zero respect.

Liz Eidelman
Zero. Yes, yes. And it's funny because when you when I first started, I'm four years out now. So when I first started to really like process this birth story, I was thinking to myself eat, as you guys know, just from like, following my Instagram account, I'm a very funny person just naturally I deal with things by using humor, right. And so, as I am today, I know that listeners can't see me but full beat full face of makeup on, I had a full face of makeup on when I was giving birth to my daughter. And so we were all kind of talking me and the dozen people in the room were cracking jokes about how good my face looked, even though I was like trying to push a baby out. So like I was kind of laissez faire about it and very much trying to bring like this light heartedness to a situation that clearly wasn't. But now that I'm looking back, I'm like, That still doesn't get this doctor to go ahead to like play games. And when I was first processing my story, I really blamed myself. I was like, you know, maybe I was just giving off this vibe that like that was okay. And the more I thought about it, and the more educated I became, I'm like, no, absolutely is not even close to being okay. And I can't imagine how many other times she's done this.

Trisha Ludwig
And if you are playing Candy Crush yourself, would be okay for her to be doing it.

Liz Eidelman
Right. And I will come back around. I don't want to give too much away yet. But I will come back around to the Candy Crush thing. Because there's another aspect of it that you guys are going to be interested to hear. But we will come back around to that. But yeah, I don't know, where was I? So yeah, when it came to the pushing phase for three hours, my daughter would kind of like crown and recede, crown and recede. And I kept asking this OB for some guidance and some information as to like how much progress I was making. And she was purposely withholding information from me. And it was most likely that she didn't want me to become discouraged or whatever. But it was very unhelpful for me. And I even you know, I was left completely in the dark about what was happening with my body and with my birth. And I even remember that, that there was a mirror that they talked about. In the like, tour, the tour that we took with the labor delivery word, they said you can use a mirror if you want and I was like, Oh, I'm not going to need all that. And in hindsight, I'm like, they didn't even offer me the mirror, even at that point when I was saying, Hey, what's going on down there? Like, why is this taking so long? So anyway, in the moment, I was just a no place to ask for these things for myself and have a dozen people standing around the room. Absolutely. No one was helpful. So in hindsight, I realize now that this environment, where I was on display, and not being treated as competent and capable, is precisely why that pushing stage needed so much intervention, so I wasn't ready. My baby wasn't ready. Everything was forced. And I think my body was really in fight or flight mode.

Trisha Ludwig
So you had your bag of waters broken? Yep, like hours prior? Yeah. Hours before, which we know isn't helpful and progressing. The labor and especially when there is a lot of fluid, you may you know, your back can set your baby up for malposition of the head. Right, which would then impact your pushing.

Liz Eidelman
Right? Yeah, I mean, the OB was honestly awful. Like I was 24. This is a good quote. Cynthia, I was like, enraged by this one to the OB was saying, like I said, Why am I throwing up right now? I was 24 hours without food. And I was vomiting through to what I know now is transition, right? And instead of telling me that this is common with that this does happen. She actually said to me, Well, maybe if you would lay off the ice chips. Yes, speechless. I know. So yeah, same OB was the one that said, I'm just going to make us a little more room. And then she proceeded to cut in a PC, audit me without my consent. Were all

Cynthia Overgard
these people still in the room watching? Yeah.

Trisha Ludwig
Why? Why? Why was there such a minor Bansal in the room? Did you have such an audience? There were

Liz Eidelman
a lot of med students, and they were all invited in to watch my delivery.

Cynthia Overgard
And so at the time, you had the right to kick

Liz Eidelman
all of them out of the room. I did not. I didn't even I had no idea

Cynthia Overgard
can kick anyone out of your hospital room in the United States. Did they ask doctors?

Liz Eidelman
No, no, they never asked. Nope.

Cynthia Overgard
Well, they tell they get away with it. They it's they want to say it's implied consent, but it's not consent at all.

Liz Eidelman
Right? Well, I mean, when you go into the hospital, to give birth, you sign your whole life away saying yeah,

Cynthia Overgard
but just so everyone knew whatever. Yeah. And they can't just so everyone knows you can't actually sign your life away, so to speak, you can't sign away your rights. So even if you sign paperwork that says I'll let people in the room, I let this doctor attend me, I let them do whatever they deem necessary. Even if you've already signed that, it doesn't mean anything. You can still say at any moment in your birth, I do not consent. No one's going to teach you that obviously, like most, most women don't know this. But you can say, I don't consent to this, even if you signed it, if you were to sue them, because they took action after you said, I don't consent. They can't hold up that paper and say, but she signed away her rights over here. It's still your right. I know, it's easy for me to say this, too. Now, after you've been through all this. And I also know you know this now. I'm just saying this because we have listeners that don't want them to think Oh, I hope that doesn't happen to me that the room gets flooded after because I've signed that paperwork.

Liz Eidelman
Oh, 100%. Yeah, I mean, it took so much thinking and research that honestly, I was not presented with as a young pregnant first time, mom. They don't, you know, they don't tell you any of this stuff. You have to you have to really try and learn it yourself and educate yourself. And I realized in hindsight that the whole Go with the Flow Plan was the worst case scenario for me because they really went you know, we really went with their flow. That was for sure. You know, cut to my daughter being born, they offered me a vacuum several times, which was the only thing that I was ever really given a choice about. And I declined it multiple times. Because because they said that someone from the NICU team or a couple of people from the NICU team would have to be in the room. And I was already I was like, there's already so many people in here, like, can we not? So um, I finally caved, I guess you could say, and we use the bathroom and it worked. And within minutes, my daughter Indi was born. And then it felt like everybody in the room kind of like disappeared immediately for except for a few stragglers. And those were the people from the NICU that would end up being very important and making my daughter's diagnosis. So long story short, they put her on my chest for like, two or three minutes. Then they took her over to the warmer to like, weigh her get her cleaned off. And then they brought her back to me. And once they brought her back to me, she was really regurgitating a lot of that amniotic fluid, like all over my chest. And so I said, I looked up and I said to one of these sneaky nurses, I said, she's throwing up a lot like, Is that normal? And she came over and looked at it. And she goes, You have you had polyhydramnios, right, I saw on your chart. And I was like, yeah, and she was like, I think we need to take the baby to get looked at. And I was like, okay, and it was almost like a light bulb went off in her head. And like she knew whatever it was that she saw, she knew. And they put her back over on the warmer. And this is what really in hindsight drives me crazy. Is that in the hour plus that we waited for her to go to the NICU to have a test done. They didn't even tell me what the test was going to be. They didn't tell me what they were going to do. They wouldn't. I mean, they didn't give me the baby. And I didn't even think to say like, Hey, could I be holding her right now? I was just worried about her because I knew something was wrong. So I was like, I better not interfere like they better make sure that the baby's okay. So my family who was waiting out in the waiting room was eventually invited into the room to like, see me and the baby and they like went and stared at her at the warmer and like nobody touched her. I didn't touch her. And then they came someone came to take her to the NICU. Another hour goes by and they say okay, mom, okay, Dad, we're going to take you down to the NICU now to see baby. I'm like, okay, so they get me in a wheelchair. And they take me to the NICU at this point. I'm two hours postpartum, I have no idea what they're doing to the baby. Why? No clue. They park me at the NICU and the nurse that parked my wheelchair, looked at one of the other nurses and said they don't know. And I was like, they don't know what. And the room kind of went silent. Like my husband and I were looking at each other. I was looking at her. And it was just it was awkward silence for a second. And then the NICU nurse was like, okay, like Mom, come sit down. You know, and that's one thing I've realized is that they like to say mom a lot.

Trisha Ludwig
I was just gonna say it's so frustrating to call you by name. Like, I hate it.

Cynthia Overgard
I'm not you're correct. I have a name for the effort of learning my name.

Liz Eidelman
Correct? Yeah. So you know, it's like, okay, mom, like, let's tell you what's going on here. So they basically told us that while the baby was in the NICU, they tried to pass a tube down her throat and it coiled back up and they got it on X ray. So it showed that her esophagus ended in a pouch and it was not connected to her stomach. So she had a birth defect. It's a mouthful. It's called esophageal atresia with a tracheal s Alpha Gio fistula.

Cynthia Overgard
Can you explain what each of those terms mean? So the first part and the second part,

Liz Eidelman
yep, so esophageal atresia is where the esophagus it kind of grows in two parts up from the stomach and down from your throat. And they are supposed to connect and fuse to make one beautiful pipe one food pipe with all the nerve endings that we need to bring our food from our mouth down to our stomach. So the esophageal atresia is when the food pipe that grows in two parts, just they both stop, they never fuse. And you can be a long gap where it doesn't stop quite far apart, or you can be a short gap where it stops, you know, centimeters from each other, and it just never made its way. And some kids have people I should say, have pure esophageal atresia. That's what that is called. My daughter had the more common type, which is the kind that has a tracheal esophageal fistula. So that means that one of those ends actually connected to her trachea, which is her airway. So the reason why she looked good on ultrasound is because some amniotic fluid was actually getting into her stomach via her trachea. So she would aspirate and some of the fluid would get in and show a stomach bubble on an ultrasound

Cynthia Overgard
is that a little bit preferable to the first one, when she doesn't have that extra that pouch at the bottom is

Liz Eidelman
very much it is very much preferable, because there's more to work with. So they clip it off from the trachea. And they have an easier time connecting it to the part that exists already, as opposed to when there's not. A lot of babies have to wait weeks months. On feeding tubes in the NICU, there's a procedure called the Folker method where they they'll go in surgically and put magnets on each end of the esophagus since the esophagus, and they'll wait until the magnets get closer and closer and closer and closer and finally touch. So they kind of like stretch it. And so luckily, Indy had the best possible best outcome. She was able to have surgery on day two of life. So we're very lucky that that was the type she had. There's actually numerous different types. Hers is called Type C, and it's the most common.

Cynthia Overgard
So they told you this news, what was your I think my husband

Liz Eidelman
and I were like, dumbfounded. We were like, what, we've never even heard of this before. Like of all the things. And I think I remember saying but I had so many ultrasounds like I had what like it. This This can't be like I remember thinking like, are we sure about this, but they showed us the x ray. And then they actually drew us on like the back of a scrap of paper, they drew us a diagram. And they said she has to have surgery. And I said, Okay, all right. Cool. When and they were like Like now, I was like, oh, okay, so is she going to do that here? And they were like, No, we're sorry, she has to go to like a really high level NICU. So that was really hard. And we held it together as best we could. My husband and I and at this point our families had left. So we were like, Okay, call the family call, tell everybody that to celebrate. So he calls his sister and says, Can you take me to to follow the ambulance? So she comes back and takes my husband. And then I called my mom and I said, Hey, can you stay with me? Because I should have baby two hours ago and I can't leave yet. They're telling me I can't leave yet. So I go back in he goes off. Steven goes off. He's with her. He's sending me pictures and stuff from the NICU. And I was supposed to stay 24 hours and I lasted seven. Before I got up and I walked out against medical advice. I signed the papers and I left. So I gave them one force bowel movement. I took a shower where I sobbed I finally was able to like cry.

Trisha Ludwig
They wouldn't let you they wouldn't let you leave until you had a bowel movement. Yeah. That is so silly. You had a vaginal birth, like, what the heck, like

Liz Eidelman
what they really wanted more than the bowel movement was bloodwork for whatever reason they wanted another round of blood work for me. So I said, Here you go. Take it. And when it comes back, the second it comes back, I'm leaving, and that's what I did. So I got up and I walked out and my mom took me over to the NICU. And when I walked into the NICU and I said hi Eidelman room 21 They were like, Are you are you mom? And I was like here we go again with them. Yeah, I was like yep, I'm mom. They were like oh my god, do you want do you want a wheelchair and like the address When was so crazy, I was like, Nope, I'm good. And I like strapped in, I struck down the halls of the NICU like 810 hours postpartum to go and be by her side. So that's kind of the story of when we got to the NICU. And I will say that she she had her successful surgery on day two of life the next morning. And our 18 Day NICU experience was a lot better than the one that we had at l&d. But this is the funny story that's going to come back now to the Candy Crush is that one of those like million med students that was in the room with us. During my delivery, I was so touched, and so concerned by everything that transpired that she actually, the two hospitals are connected. So she was a student kind of like jumping around between the hospitals. She actually asked if she could be on if she could switch her schedule and be on my daughter's surgery. And I didn't know this. And so we waited in the waiting room for her to come out of surgery. And when her surgeon came out, her name is Jen, Jen followed him. And I was like, What are you doing here? Like you were just holding my leg back at the other hospital. And we kept in touch with her ever since pretty much and it was crazy. Because she sat down with us after and she was like, I have a I have a question. I hope you don't mind. Can I ask you a kind of a personal question? I said, Yeah, sure. And she goes, did it? Did it bother you at all? The way that OB was acting like playing on her phone and stuff? Like Did it bother you? And I was like, so happy and elated and writing this like, massive high that my daughter had a functioning esophagus and like was alive. And they literally they saved her life. She was born incompatible with life. And they made her compatible with life. That I replied to her. And I was like, No, I don't know, I didn't really think about it. I hadn't really thought about it didn't really bother me. So Jen now is working in the Air Force, I believe she's an Air Force surgeon. And once her Air Force commitment is up, that's when she's going to be starting her OB residency. And so Jen, if you're listening, I care. I cared about what she said, I just had to like I had to come down off of everything that was happening to me. So that was very interesting, because the even the med student was like, This doesn't seem right.

Cynthia Overgard
It often takes us time to feel clear or offended about things like that, that happened, women put up with a lot of stuff in the world. And they always have a lot of abuses a lot of harassment. And there's a part of the brain that just forces one anyone in trauma, men, women, children to function, and to say, like, I can handle this, it's not a big deal. And then later, you look back, and you're just like, you know, you feel all the emotions with a little more perspective and clarity,

Trisha Ludwig
the brain has to prioritize, the brain has to prioritize what to focus on. And in that moment, you had far too many other important things to focus on then the Candy Crush, but as things settle down, you can start you know, working through those lower level issues, and then you realize that wow, that were really was a big issue. It just wasn't the priority at the time.

Liz Eidelman
Correct. And it's funny, because you know, my husband, who's an amazing partner and amazing support. We've been through so much together, that we've really just kind of grown as people. I still don't think he 100% gets that part where he's like, but you didn't seem fazed by it, then so why are you fazed by it now? And that's the one thing where we like really differ where I'm like, I think you don't understand how shell shocked I was. So you know, I mean, he was too like we both have PTSD from this. But I guess it was a little bit different for me. And the more I think about it, and the more I really dive into learning about how capable I actually was, if I were given an opportunity to birth the right way, birth the way that I was meant to, I think I probably would have had a much better a much better experience, even without my daughter's diagnosis. Right. The diagnosis aside, there's so much about this experience that could have been handled more appropriately.

Trisha Ludwig
So what happened next, Liz, is there anything else about the story with India? And then how did this experience with indie influence your choices around giving birth the second time?

Liz Eidelman
Yes. So the last thing I will mention is that one issue that we did experience during our NICU stay was that it was hospital policy. Were I delivered to do the newborn heel prick screening before my baby was discharged. So typically, I'm sure you know, Trisha, especially that it's done after a full 24 hours. Once the baby has eaten and metabolize some milk, obviously, indeed was not capable of eating anything. So, unfortunately, hospital policy was more important than our experience. And they pricked her at three hours old, having not eaten anything. And unfortunately, that newborn screening came back suggesting we get additional testing to rule out cystic fibrosis because it came back abnormal. And this was terrifying. So when we asked about it at the NICU, they were very Laissez Faire in their response telling us like, oh, it's probably nothing. It's probably because they pricked her so early, but like, after all we had been through, it was most definitely not nothing. And the cystic fibrosis test, which is a sweat test has to be done. months after a baby is born, because babies don't produce sweat. So for a number of months, I had it kind of in the back of my mind, I was dealing with everything else that we were dealing with her health, we had some back and forth to the hospital, once we were discharged, it wasn't just like, Okay, we're done now.

Trisha Ludwig
Well, let's not forget that you also had we're told over and over through many ultrasounds, but it's probably just the variation of normal, which it often is, but you had just come out of that experience, to then get another potentially falsely positive tests, after you just went through what you went through. Who's going to? Who's going to roll with that? And Correct. Right, exactly. Just trust what you say. Right? Exact. So that was a necessary thing for them to put you through.

Liz Eidelman
Right. I mean, I was a new mom with clear PTSD, heartache, worry over, like what the outcome of my child's life was going to be. I mean, I was Googling relentlessly trying to figure out, you know, what's the life expectancy? What are the complications, what like, you know, in the NICU at four o'clock in the morning, in a pitch black room, I was sitting there like googling all of the like, what if scenarios, and it's funny, because now, just coming back to my Instagram platform, moms and dads, some dads that are in the NICU with the same diagnosis will do the same thing. They will Google, and they will find my birth story. And they will send me a message and they will say, Hi, I'm in the NICU right now. We're so scared. You know, seeing your daughter makes us so happy. Like what Hey, is there anything you can tell us. And so I've actually created this little like sub platform of my own platform, where I just have this community of families of children and some adults that have esophageal Trisha. And it's been amazing to connect with them. And today, you know, India is thriving. She's crazy. She's crazy, happy four year old, and I had a second healthy daughter in 2021. And so the way that she, the way that I kind of attacked that pregnancy was not as exciting as I would hope. But when I first found out I was pregnant with her, I had it in my mind that I wanted something different. And I didn't know what and it took until halfway through my pregnancy, of getting a lot of rhetoric like, well, you know, you needed a vacuum with your last baby. So we should definitely induce you this time. And you had high blood pressure last time. So you need to take the baby aspirin this time. And maybe you should just have a C section, it would just be easier. Like literally, they were just slamming me with all kinds of excuses that I felt like, at this obese office, I felt like I had a scarlet letter on my chart from everything that happened. And they were just they would, they looked at it and they were like, nope, like we got to just get this baby out. So I was really irritated by that. And I fired my provider, and I hired a group of midwives that deliver out of the hospital were indeed had been transported to this way if God forbid, the same thing were to happen again. At least we were there and we could avoid the transport. So I hired midwives and I hired a doula.

Cynthia Overgard
When you mind explaining or exploring why you're crying more now than you were through telling your story, it's like the PTSD memory is making you more emotional. Yeah, you were in the middle of a second pregnancy. It was healthy. What was happening for you? Why are you so emotional thinking about that second pregnancy?

Liz Eidelman
Um, I just think that I wish that I could have i wish i There's so much I wish I had done differently about it. And I feel like I figured things out a little too late. And yeah, I guess it's just a little bit of regret, because I don't know if I'll have another baby. I hope so. I hope I have another chance and another opportunity because I do now really believe that I am capable. And I am informed and I feel ready. I feel at peace with the experiences that I've had. But for my second daughter like I switched to midwives and I hired this doula and you I wound up with a C section, the second time after a vaginal birth the first time, my daughter and my second daughter had an ace in clinic presentation, which we only found out after the fact, my daughter was head down, but her head was kind of like, tucked to the side a little bit like cocked to the side. So it wasn't the most narrow part that was trying to come through my pelvis. And from my understanding the baby's head pressing down on the pelvis is the way that your cervix ultimately will fully dilate from all that pressure. But if they're not,

Cynthia Overgard
actually Rachel read just published an article saying that that's a long standing fallacy is it really it is but but in a synthetic presentation of the baby is definitely, often a very one of the best reasons for a C section. Because if it you know, head isn't well positioned, you need the head to be well positioned for the birth to go smoothly. And sometimes it's so poorly positioned, it cannot happen vaginally,

Trisha Ludwig
head has to head actually has to pass through a slight ace in clinic position. But it can get stuck in that position. And when it gets stuck in that position, it can't proceed further.

Liz Eidelman
Yeah, and that's what happened, I spiked a little bit of a low grade fever and the baby was having some decelerations. And it had been 24 hours of an induction, I should add, I was induced the second time. And I did not want to be and I agreed to the induction at 40 weeks because my second daughter had at her anatomy scan, we found a single umbilical artery. So she had an umbilical cord abnormality, and the midwives. Again, I'm like, with the let you know, they're like, we'll let you go to 40 weeks. But then, because you have this umbilical cord issue, you know, I think I was just so influenced by everyone else. And my prior circumstances and what the professionals were telling me quote, unquote, that I wasn't listening to myself. And Cynthia, to answer your question. I think that's why I do get more emotional over the second birth. Because I felt like that was my chance to kind of like redeem myself and really have an empowering experience. And I felt like I did. I did things to help me get there. But ultimately, I just I continued to worry about what was being told to me and not what was actually like inside telling me like, everything's gonna be okay. So yeah, my daughter was born. She's 21 months now she's healthy.

Cynthia Overgard
Liz, do you believe she was a syncretic? Because of anything that was done to you? Or do you believe she was destined to be acing clinic? Regardless?

Liz Eidelman
No, I think that the induction is really the problem. You know, forcing

Cynthia Overgard
they break your waters early to? Yep, that's a risk factor for breaking a woman's waters. When did they do that?

Liz Eidelman
Oh, well, for her they did. They started the induction with a Foley catheter. And then after that was when they started the Pitocin. And then I would say the next day, so my Waters had been broken for less time with my second baby.

Cynthia Overgard
But they didn't when you were dilating. They just broke your waters. Yeah. What did they tell you? Why were they doing it? That said, it's a really terrible procedure, they really do it. It's been

Trisha Ludwig
part of the protocol of induction for so long. And even though the research now says it doesn't, doesn't speed anything up, it's not helpful.

Cynthia Overgard
It's not medically risky. And even if it were to speed up labor, which which most research shows it doesn't at all. And even ACOG says it doesn't So even they they're erring on the side of No, it doesn't. It's it's loaded with risks, and dramatically drives up C section weights. And I just wonder, like, even even if it didn't have those risks, we have to consider any, any intervention, whose greatest attribute is that it speeds up labor. That's always a warning. Why are we speeding up labor? Why are we intervening just for the sake of speeding it up? Unless there's a reason to like, get this baby out right now. But that's not that's not normally the conditions. When Oh, no,

Liz Eidelman
there was no reason to get her out at that, right. I mean, they just all have this weird fear around the umbilical cord, and I'm probably I'm sure it was probably amplified by the fact that I have a child with a serious birth defect that was undetectable on ultrasound. So I'm sure everybody had it in the back of their minds, like, Okay, this baby might need X, Y and Z.

Cynthia Overgard
Listen, I'm sorry to interrupt again, Trisha, what about the umbilical cord artery?

Trisha Ludwig
What about it? Well, what about what it's

Cynthia Overgard
Common we hear from a lot of women who have that. And I it's my it's been my impression that it isn't really a very big deal. But Liz was treated as as though it was. So what's your opinion on it? Or what's the consensus on it?

Trisha Ludwig
Well, the idea, again, most of the time, it is completely benign. Similar to what you were told about the polyhydramnios. Sometimes it is associated with anomalies. And then the idea, the thought is that, as you progress in pregnancy and get later post dates post term, which is not 40 weeks, by the way, they get concerned about, you know, perfusion of the placenta. So I think you are absolutely right, that everybody was just a little gun shy about letting you go longer based on your past experience. But truly, there actually was no medical indication for induction in your second pregnancy. And that is why it's hard to process. Right? You think knowing what you know, now, and looking back, you can feel like, oof, maybe I didn't need to do that.

Liz Eidelman
Yep. Yep, absolutely. But we couldn't have said it better myself.

Trisha Ludwig
We can't beat ourselves up over things that we don't know, number one, and we can't underestimate the influence of that post traumatic stress on our decision making. Like you can't cut it's so hard to come at it with a clear head. In retrospect, you can look back now and be like, well, she was fine. She's healthy. I could have done it. Right. But you didn't know that in the moment?

Liz Eidelman
No, there was a lot of things I didn't know. I mean, she had a nuchal cord. And I was like, Oh, thank God, we did a C section. She had the cord wrapped around her neck, and you know, which also doesn't matter. Yeah. Now, I know that that's that's not even a thing. In most cases. So you know, it's, it was it is very, it's harder to process her second birth, because it's like, see that? Yeah. Yeah. Liz, how

Cynthia Overgard
did this whole experience change you? When you think about your wedding day, and you never imagined that you and your husband are gonna go through something like this together? You're definitely a changed woman? Oh, yeah. I mean, it you must have changed so, so much because of these experiences. And clearly they were traumatic and difficult. But I'm also sensing that it's changed you in some ways that are serving you and your family. What do you think about that? Yeah,

Liz Eidelman
it absolutely has. I mean, I will say, I've always been, let's start with the negatives, I've always been an anxious person. And I think my anxiety is way worse. I think with after my first I had no chance to even experience any kind of postpartum, postpartum anxiety or depression, but I definitely had have postpartum anxiety after my second, which I have, you know, I seek help for. So I think it has made me more anxious, it has made me hyper vigilant about my health and my kids health, my anxiety is really rooted in health. If you spoke to my third therapist, it would be that I have health anxiety, and that makes perfect sense. So that's the negative. But the positive is that I have used my platform to be such an advocate for people with this condition, and even for educating other people who have never heard of this condition before. Because as I was saying, when they first gave us a diagnosis, my husband and I had never heard of this. And so many parents of EA kids say the same thing. And now I get to have this little corner of the internet, where I'm educating. So many people are on this, and it just feels really good to be her advocate. And I've also learned how to be her advocate in the medical setting, because it's not cut and dry. She's had several other procedures, surgeries incidents, despite being an overall healthy and active kid, like she does have a medical complexity. And the amount of fighting for lack of a better term that I have had to do on her behalf is the kind of fighting I wish I could have done for myself. I Go to Bat for this kid, day in and day out. And you know, as a mom, sometimes you, you forget to do that for yourself until it comes to like a certain point. And then you're like, No, no, no, no, no, this, it's about me now. So that's the way it's changed me in a positive way. I think it's really helped me to come into those shoes. And as I said at the beginning, I'm training now to become a doula and I after having two less than stellar birth experiences and experience with postpartum anxiety and PTSD, medical complexities I mean, I've had this whole kind of like roster of experience with surrounding hospital birth especially I really just want to help Other women come to that conclusion and step into those shoes the first time or the second time? You know, I don't? I don't, I

Cynthia Overgard
don't want them to have the traumatic experience in order to learn what they would benefit from learning the first time around. Yeah.

Liz Eidelman
And listen, sometimes there's no there's nothing that can stop you from having a traumatic experience. Like I said with my daughter. Her diagnosis was a surprise for us. So even if I had some magical dream, home waterbirth with twinkle lights and affirmations all over the walls, like just a perfect scenario, it would have come crashing down in five seconds.

Cynthia Overgard
Yeah. Do we know why esophageal atresia occurs

Liz Eidelman
are doing so my daughter is a member of the esophageal atresia and airway clinic out of Columbia, New York, Presbyterian, they're doing incredible work, because they care for our kids. But they're also research hospitals. So they're a research clinic. So they're researching our kids. So we immediately all gave blood and saliva to be a part of a really big genetic study that they're doing to try and find out if there is a genetic link. And one thing that I can say is that they have not found a specific genetic link yet. However, through my my own community outreach, and like getting to know families all over, I have met a couple of families where it has reoccurred in interesting ways. So I know an adult EA t f, type CIF woman, who had twins via IVF. And one of them was the long gap type type A and another, the other one was type C. And then she had a singleton after that, who was healthy. So there has to be some kind of a genetic component. We just haven't found it yet. Because, interestingly enough, the first EA repair that was successful was I think, 81 years ago. So chances are, you know, someone that's older than the first repair, and before that baby would have just died.

Cynthia Overgard
How common is it?

Liz Eidelman
That's a one in every 4500 live births. It's some, it's crazy, because we don't really know why it happens. And for a lot of people, it is a fluke. I mean, there's families that go on to have numerous children, and only one of them has it, and there's no history of anything. So yeah, when I find out I'll be sure to let you guys know, but we're all on a constant crusade to try and figure out you know, hopefully at some point during his lifetime, she'll know

Thank you for joining us at the Down To Birth Show. You can reach us @downtobirthshow on Instagram or email us at Contact@DownToBirthShow.com. All of Cynthia’s classes and Trisha’s breastfeeding services are offered live online, serving women and couples everywhere. Please remember this information is made available to you for educational and informational purposes only. It is in no way a substitute for medical advice. For our full disclaimer visit downtobirthshow.com/disclaimer. Thanks for tuning in, and as always, hear everyone and listen to yourself.

Trisha Ludwig
when you told it very well for not having spoken about it before. Thank you.

Cynthia Overgard
How did it feel telling it?

Liz Eidelman
It felt really good. And it was. It is interesting to hear that I felt so much more emotion around the second birth right. Yeah, I'm glad you pointed it out. Because I don't think I would have really thought about it until after the fact and I'm like, You know what, that birth really did affect me more. And I think that's why I am wanting to do this now. Like after Stevie's birth, because Sienese birth had a whole different impact on me was like, you know, this could have been avoided. So it felt good. Getting that out. Thank you. I'm so happy to have done this. You guys are the best.