#149 | February Q&A: Eating in Labor; Leaking Breastmilk; Postpartum Bodies; Homebirth & Ultrasound; Ovulation After Baby; Birthing Positions; Quickies

I'm Cynthia Overgard, owner of HypnoBirthing of Connecticut, childbirth advocate and postpartum support specialist. And I'm Trisha Ludwig, certified nurse midwife and international board certified lactation consultant. And this is the Down To Birth Podcast. Childbirth is something we're made to do. But how do we have our safest and most satisfying experience in today's medical culture? Let's dispel the myths and get down to birth.

Maybe sometimes shore could be not necessarily never looked down at your pelvis and never let a provider look at your pelvis and make any assumptions as to what kind of what size baby you could birth because it's all nones. How do you get around a no eating policy and labor? We love questions about policies never experienced leaking breast milk through my clothing or experienced a letdown of milk on the other breast when I am breastfeeding her. These things seem very common in lactating mothers, and I've wondered why it hasn't happened to me, I am four months postpartum, and I'm really struggling to feel connected to my husband emotionally and physically. This is where we, we are very tempted to start a stopwatch in this segment, we answer we bang out as many. Yeah, I know. I get it as many quick questions as we can. I'm Cynthia Overgard, owner of HypnoBirthing of Connecticut, childbirth advocate, and Postpartum Support Specialist.

And I'm Tricia Ludwig, certified nurse midwife and international board certified lactation consultant.

And this is the down to birth podcast.

Childbirth is something we're made to do. But how do we have our safest and most satisfying experience in today's medical culture?

let's dispel the myths and get down to birth.

We're back. We're here. It's time for our February q&a.

And because our quickies segment in our last month's q&a was such a wild success, and we received so much feedback. We're doing it again, it's going to become a regular segment because frankly, you guys ask a lot of really good questions. And we can't just answer a handful every episode, we're going to throw a bunch more into our quick use segment. So keep giving us feedback on those quickies. Tell us all about. All you have to say about a quickie. All right, let's let's go up. We're up to some other exciting projects, but they're yet to be revealed.

Do we have anything to share before we get into this? Well, we have well, this past month, we did at long last our basically our life stories, which are now in the highlights section of Instagram. So if you want to know everything about me and Trisha from basically birth, and through our launch of our podcast, then check out our highlights and Instagram. And you will see photos of our childhoods and through our lives up to this point and how the podcast came to be. But we do have some other very exciting projects in the works that we're not quite ready to reveal, but they're definitely forthcoming. So for now, I guess we should jump into our questions.

Let's do it. All right. The first question for the February q&a is for you, Cynthia. And the question is, how do you get around a no eating policy in labor?

We love questions about policies, there's nothing to get around. There's always the same answer. You know, this is you know, what are you gonna say, Trisha, go ahead.

Your Rights Trump all policies, your personal decisions about yourself and your body and what you want to do and what you don't want to do always trump hospital policy. And a good example of that is the episode we had with Cassidy. Remember, she told her birth story, and I think it was the first Wednesday in December, December 1, it was a great episode where a woman from Idaho shared her very traumatic first birth story ended up with a helicopter ride for the baby, she ended up having a great second birth. But there was a moment where she had to go to the hospital and get tested. And she refused to put a mask on. She was alone in a room in isolation, waiting for ultrasound results, he was just waiting, she wasn't in labor. And the nurse came and said, you have to put a mask on and she refused. She said, I need to breathe. I'm not putting a mask on. And so you all might be feeling nervous, like what happens if someone refuses something so extreme as wearing a mask in 2021. And the nurse ended up saying something like You're impossible. And she threw the woman's breakfast at her and her coffee, coffee and her hot coffee. Now, I shared this story with some of my clients recently, because they asked me the same question about policy. And I said, Now you tell me who has the lawsuit here.

Eating and labor, it's your body. Not to mention that not eating in labor is not evidence based.

And it's linked to both failure to progress and fetal distress reasons number one, and number two, in that order of the most likely reasons for secession in this country. So we're still practicing policies that we know are harmful and lead to cesarean sections.

It came about because the anesthesiologist recommended it when case a woman had to go for an emergency C section to go under general anesthesia that the risk of aspiration would go up if they had recently had anything to eat or drink.

It actually came about in in the 30s and 40s, when they did give everyone anesthesia for birth, that was the trend for all women in the 30s and 40s. It even went into the 50s, even a little bit in the 60s.

This is a great example of how long it takes for policy to change for we have had, we've had evidence and known for so long that eating and labor is not harmful, and that it's actually beneficial for mom and baby. And yet still, it's still out there.

And not only that the evidence has been out there now for 80 years for many, many decades that eating in labor is beneficial to the laboring mother. But in November of 2015, the American Association of anesthesiologists, the very group, the very medical group that started to deny women, food and labor came out with a press release that said, eating benefits women in labor, and since then, nothing has changed in any of our many local major hospitals. Nothing. It's crazy. So you take matters into your own hands.

Exactly. Pack a picnic, eat your food, if you're uncomfortable eating it in front of the labor and delivery nurse or your provider than do it when they're out of the room.

You're allowed to tell them to leave actually, I mean, yeah, you have all my space. My Space I need to eat, I can do nothing about but leave they mostly eat, please eat Please drink, please do not worry about that policy. And remember you have rights and those rights Trump policy.

Next question is for Trisha, and it says, I've been exclusively breastfeeding my two month old daughter since birth. I've never experienced leaking breast milk through my clothing or experienced a letdown of milk on the other breast when I am breastfeeding her. These things seem very common in lactating mothers. And I've wondered why it hasn't happened to me, to some women just not leak as much as others. And is this any sort of indication of supply issues? I presume not, as my baby is gaining weight just fine, and has the appropriate amount of wet and soiled diapers? I would love to hear your take on this. Thank you so much for everything you ladies do, Amanda?

So the answer is yes. And no. Yes. Do some women not leak as much as others? And no. Is this any sort of indicator of supply issues? That's the short answer. It's pretty that sounds like a quickie? Yeah. Okay, it's a great question. Because actually, people ask this all the time, you do not have to leak in pregnancy, you do not have to have to leak during breastfeeding sessions to have sufficient milk supply. So please do not gauge your assessment of whether you're producing enough based on whether or not you leak. And believe it or not, a lot of women really do do that. It's just your biology, it's just your physiology. It's just how your body works. It doesn't mean even if you don't feel let down, it doesn't mean that you're not having them, you are having let downs because your baby's getting your milk. But you don't necessarily have to feel them and you don't have to leak in order to have sufficient milk supply. You're kind of lucky, we can, it's kind of annoying.

And for those of you who are leaking, it does tend to resolve in time. So it's not that your entire breastfeeding relationship is going to involve, you know, waking up to wet sheets and your partner saying, Oh, look down, you need to go change your shirt, because you haven't noticed you leaked through it. But if you are a leaker, you're probably always going to leak when you're away from your baby and you see another baby crying or you hear that it's still you know, if you're somebody who lets down very easily like that, probably going to deal with that for a while. You got to wear the breast pads.

All right, let's go the next one.

Okay, question for you is I am four months postpartum. And I'm really struggling to feel connected to my husband emotionally and physically. Obviously, my body changed majorly and I feel frumpy compared to my cute baby belly. My hubby is so sweet and understands that I'm struggling. But is this normal? Do you have any suggestions to help with this feeling? I appreciate all your posts and information. I went to an OBGYN with my pregnancy. And I really wish they talked and worried more about what postpartum moms go through instead of just come back if you feel like you're depressed, and we'll get you started on some meds.

Alright, I've got to take part two first, which is this OB situation and we talk about this quite a bit on the podcast, but everyone in this country in this industry is very siloed. So your obstetrician lens absolutely positively nothing about breastfeeding, about nutrition, about postpartum perinatal mood and anxiety disorders, and pelvic floor recovery. And you can point to anyone in this industry pretty much and recognize that they're often doling out advice or neglecting to give support because they only know their one single very limited craft. And that's what's going on here. So your OB doesn't even support you postpartum. Nevermind in Pregnancy, because they are completely uninformed. And if you do go to them postpartum you're you're barking up the wrong tree, what's going to happen? And we hear this constantly is one of two things. They tell you. Oh, nevermind, it'll pass is the baby blues, or here are some meds, neither of which is the appropriate response. It is very much normal to feel this way to feel disconnected from your husband emotionally and physically, not just because of the changes in your postpartum body. But because of the change in identity that happens when we become mothers. And when you are you had this relationship with your husband. Before baby that was one way and after baby, it's really very different. And we have a great episode on that marriage after baby with Maggie, it was way back. Do you remember the episode number? Oh, no, let out of your hat. Come on. No, but it was fall of 2020.

Okay. Anyway, so that it's not, you know, it isn't just about how your body has changed, it is normal to feel this emotional and physical disconnect. Just because you've also become a mother, you're only four months postpartum, it's still very new. And it will, it will change and your body will change to we have to be patient and gentle with ourselves, it does take quite a bit of time, but your body, your postpartum body will forever be changed. But it can be just as beautiful and just as amazing. And just as whatever you want it to be, you know, a year after baby.

It's the voice of your society that's making you judge yourself so much. That's what's so difficult, and it's so hard to change.

But, and I think we think we're going to be like stuck with this body that we don't like forever. But that's not the case. You know, we want to, you'll feel fit again, you'll feel whatever you want to feel it will happen. And there are so many options if you are feeling depressed before meds, I think already addressed that. But there are many options before you don't need to just jump on meds. So it's not really going to probably fix things.

I think that's not even her inclination. I think she knows that's what the obstetrician would say. So the episode you were referring back to is episode 61 was about that episode, you were thinking about marriage after birth. Yeah, how your relationship changes. And I was just saying that she, her disconnect to her husband is not just because of her postpartum body, but what happens in our relationship, how it changes after birth, and how the contracts that we have with our partners before birth and after need to be different.

You know, they did studies on them. They asked men how attractive they were, how attractive they felt that was you know, this, this is a pretty well known study. So they asked men how attractive they think they are. And they asked women how attractive they think they are. And then they asked basically a population of people about those individuals. And the men consistently reported that they believed they were more attractive than the group of people ranked them. And the women rank themselves lower than the group of people ranked them. And it's like, I'd rather be the man in that situation, I would rather go through my world just feeling great, striding around in shape, or not feeling totally great about myself. But our society has put all eyes on women, women are judging women, men are judging women, and just the slightest thing happens. And if you spend the rest of your life, you know, looking in the mirror and judging yourself, you're going to rob yourself of a lot of joy and a lot of fun.

And social media hasn't helped with any of this No, no, with you can also change your thinking a little bit as far as if I don't know what you're, you know, if you're looking in the mirror and being hard on yourself, if you can just change all of that to I want to look and feel healthy, everything changes. I want to feel healthy. Just let that be it. It's gonna change your whole life if you change your focus.

That's where the focus should be. Alright, let's go to the next one for Trisha. Hi, I have a quick question. I've started listening to your podcasts. And I'm curious about having a home birth midwife. Do you still go to a doctor throughout the pregnancy for ultrasounds? Or how does that work? This may be a stupid question, but I really want to do home births when I start having kids and I don't exactly know how all that works.

It's a great question. And it's a question that so many people considering a home birth have. So do you still go to a doctor throughout pregnancy for ultrasounds not some people start with the doctor and then take on a midwife and continue care with both for a little bit of time but you really do not have to do that and you absolutely do not have to go to a doctor for ultrasounds, your midwife depending on your midwives license and where she practices can write a request for an ultrasound and send you to a radiologist or ultrasonographer and you get your ultrasound and the report is given back to your midwife just as it would be if you read an obese office, and the report is interpreted by the ultrasonographer by the radiologist and your midwife interprets those results and shares them with you and it's exactly the same as it would be than OB, she can prescribe them she can, she can write the script for them, she can interpret them. So the takeaway that I hope everyone understands is if you leave an obstetrician to birth with a midwife, you never have to see an obstetrician, again, the rest of your life not for your pregnancy, not for your future pregnancies ever, not even one time, not for any annual checkup, not for birth control, you never have to see an obstetrician, again, if that's your choice, and anything that you would need, as you said, your midwife can write an order for and if something develops in your pregnancy, that becomes high risk, you can still actually maintain care with your midwife. And you can still sometimes even have a home birth when you have collaborative care with an OB. So your midwife and OB can work together to manage a high risk birth even at home, under certain circumstances, if it's safe.

And would that be the lb that partners a little bit that backs up the midwife? Or would the would the pregnant woman be responsible for putting those two people together?

Ideally, it would be the OB who had an agreement to collaborate with the midwife, right? That's how you're gonna get your best care.

Okay, next question is for Trisha, do you have any tips? Or could you talk about trying to get pregnant again, while exclusively breastfeeding or ways to track ovulation when you haven't gotten your period back yet?

Well, tips for trying to get pregnant involves a lot of sex. Just do it and see what happens. If you're enjoying doing that postpartum you know, that's how you get pregnant, obviously. As far as tracking ovulation when you haven't gotten your period back yet, the thing is that you don't ovulate until you get your period back. You may have one ovulation prior to the first period. But after that, once you get your period, and you're ovulating, you'll have your period regularly. So you can't really track ovulation until your period returns. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it makes perfect sense that the key is if you don't want to get pregnant, that first ovulation that comes back. If you're not aware of it, you can conceive again without realizing it.

That's right. That's a tricky one. And you don't know if that's gonna happen at three months or seven months. All right, next one for you, Cynthia, I know it is important not to give birth lying on my back. But why is it so important? And does this mean I can't give birth in a bed? What if they tell me at the hospital that I have to which they most likely well, and you just heard our little segment on hospital policy, which means absolutely nothing. But it would be distressing if someone were putting that pressure on you. So you don't want to give birth in the supine position or on your back, let's just be clear about that. We're talking flat on your back or heaven forbid, with your legs up in stirrups or something like that. Absolutely. You absolutely do not need to give birth you should not give birth in those conditions, it would not be comfortable for you. It's not evidence based whatsoever. The key reason among many is that your pelvis expands up to 30%, about 30% as your baby is descending and emerging. So never looked down at your pelvis and never let a provider look at your pelvis and make any assumptions as to what kind of what size baby you could birth because it's all nonsense. When a baby is coming through you your pelvis expands and it transforms into a position and into a state it has never before been in so you're not aware of how capable your pelvis is, of having all those bones expand. But all of the expansion happens in the sacrum or the lower back. None of it happens in the front of the pubic of the pelvic bone. So if you're on your back, it cannot open even the slightest bit. So imagine how many women were on their backs when they were told your baby is too big your baby isn't descending Nevermind the effects of gravity the baby expected to traverse horizontally rather than work with gravity to come out. Nevermind that no mammal in a million years would birth on their spine with feels unsafe, it is unsafe, we're exposing all of our organs to predators. It sounds funny in our modern day to talk that way. But we have been doing this for 3.2 million years and almost every one of those years was out in the wild. But basically, in short, it's so your pelvis can expand. You can give birth in any position you want. Now, if you are in a hospital bed, if you have an epidural even and you feel your options are a little limited. You can get into what's called the semi reclining position where from your tailbone to the top of your head or at least to the top of your spine, which goes into your head past your neck. If that's at least at a 45 degree angle, then your pelvis can still expand. But you can also flip on your hands and knees on a bed. Many positions sideline is a great one. And it's I think it's women like it sometimes because they're tired, their legs are tired, they don't want to be upright. They don't want to be on their hands and knees. They don't want to be squatting. They don't want to be on their back. So relax. They will on their side it also probably has to do with some you know, instinctual communication between their baby and them that maybe that side position is just the way to be He needs to rotate. To help be boring. I don't see too many people give birth on their side. But it's definitely, definitely happens. Now, interestingly, a lot of women do. I witnessed a lot of women giving birth on their back. And it always surprises me that they choose the size on their back. Well, they'll be in bed, they might be on their side, they'll be on their back. Sometimes I sometimes I think that when they're tired and later and later labor, this is the position that they will go into for a little bit of rest. And just like you would be in a squatting position on the floor, where you can help get that that sense of varying pressure bearing down, it helps you push a little bit, sometimes women will do that, with their legs in the bed. I think the most important point is that if it feels good to you, and you are happy on your back, and your baby's tolerating it, proceed, but please don't be pushed into that position. We do know it's not the optimal position to birth and we do know that the pelvis is restricted more, when you're on your back. And in a hospital birth, they are going to basically force you into that position unless you are really adamant about it. I mean, that is the position they want you in because it is far more convenient for the provider.

That position is also linked to higher rates of fetal distress just in and of itself. Absolutely, because you're putting pressure on the blood flow to the baby.

Alright, the next one says, Hello, I just listened to the January q&a Great as usual, I had the thought about ultrasounds being unsafe previously. So the question that came up regarding multiple scans was up my alley. I'm just curious if you can point me in the right direction. For more information on that. I've tried to look it up. But everything I find is medically biased and not evidence based. I'm nine weeks along, and I work with ultrasound on animals every day, it's so tempting to just put the probe on myself and peek I'm sure that is, as my coworkers do it all the time, but it's something I just can't agree with. Also, thanks to you guys, after all the trauma around my first birth, we hired a home birth midwife, which is something I never thought I would do. And with positive mindset and education, I'm so happy and confident with my decision. I cannot wait for appointment in two weeks to really experience this, it truly means so much to me that y'all are so open and honest with helping other women to be more knowledgeable.

That's nice. Thank you, I think we're just gonna give a brief response to this. And ultimately, we're going to probably have to do a deeper dive on ultrasound at some point. But I think your instinct to not put that scanner on your belly, every time you're at work is a good one. We really don't need regular ultrasound, we know that regular ultrasound certainly can go looking for problems in pregnancy that we don't need to find that aren't actually problems. So if you are being offered, you know, regular and weekly scans the question that she is referencing in this was somebody I think it was in our IG stories or something said something about their OB wanting to do weekly ultrasounds, we and we said hard no on that. Absolutely not, there is no benefit to that. There is risks to that not just potential risk to the developing fetus, which we don't exactly understand fully the risk of ultrasound to a developing fetus. But more importantly, because or equally as important because regular ultrasounds will always find something that they want to monitor and keep an eye on and just keep you in this perpetual cycle of getting ultrasounds to doctors make extra money, the more they do.

Yes, it's a procedure that can be built for ultrasound was created for high risk women only. And as with everything else created only for the high risk population, it ends up being practiced in the entire population. So for some women, they don't get any for some they just do the anatomy scan. And they don't do it again, unless there's a specific reason to do so like suspecting your baby is breech, or that there might be some issue with the placenta.

The early ultrasound is also the unknown piece of what does that exposure to those rapidly developing fetal cells? Do? I mean, obviously, we know that it's not causing gross anomalies. But is it impacting development in a more subtle way? Ultrasound heats up the cells, it causes them to move rapidly. That's how they get the the visual. And I can't go into too much explanation on it. But I do know that is a critical window of time, in that in those early weeks of pregnancy and trans vaginal ultrasound, to frequent ultrasounds in the first trimester that can't be there, there is no benefit and they potentially have risks. So why do it?

How do you feel about a provider who says this is just a job to me? And not a calling or purpose? That's the whole Question. We got that? What how do you feel about a format? Who says this is just a job to me? First of all, who would say that a midwife or OB we're talking? Yeah.

This is what this is why I always say whatever you do when you hire someone, they need to have a high emotional intelligence. I mean, who would ever say such a thing to the client? Um, I No, no, I think it's a red flag, because I would sure not want to hear those words. But you have to see how you feel when someone says this is just a job to me.

This isn't, this isn't the kind of job that should be just a job, there are certain jobs where it's okay for it to just be a job, you know, if you're working at a gas station, fine, whatever. But I like if you hire if you hire a nanny for your child, and they say this is just a job to me. Well, that would also feel a little unsafe and uncomfortable. Absolutely. I mean, there are some lines of work where you need to feel there's there's a certain emotional connection to the work that they're doing. Well, what do we say all the time is the most important thing in your relationship with your provider is trust. And if you don't have somebody who is invested in the work, how can you trust them? You can't trust them. I'm gonna need more context. Whoever submitted that share more, please tell us more.

Remember the one last month about like the passive aggressive in laws, we were like details, please. We haven't heard yet. Come on. Yada, yada. The whole question there.

If you're out there, tell us more. All right, I think like ding, ding, ding, ding, we need some kind of sound effect. We're going on to our next round, which is the cookies. So for those of you who missed our January q&a, we've got something new. We are very tempted to sort of stop watching this segment. We answer we bang out as many. Yeah, I know. I get it as many quick questions as we can. So let's go we're gonna answer so for the last segment of this episode, we answer as many questions as we can. That appeared to be very quick questions at first glance, so here we go. Is sex really okay for the baby? It's, it's, this was submitted by the husband. Yeah. Okay. So this one is submitted by the husband. Remember, we found out we have three. What was it? Car Dealer? husbands who listened to this podcast?

Oh, yeah, that was hilarious. Yes, three different car dealerships, a Volvo dealership, a Chevy dealership and a Honda. I want to say it was unbelievable. We heard from one person that oh no, we heard from Trisha that her car dealer said he listens to the podcast. We shared that on Instagram stories. And then a few women wrote it and said is it this place? Because they said they listen, my husband who works at this place? So Trisha wrote guys, we now have confirmation that three car dealership, men are listening to the Down to Earth podcast anyway. So that's so part of guys. It was a it was so funny. So this is our first question I think we received from a husband, and it says, Is it really okay to have sex? While I It says for the baby, what he means like, Is it really okay for us to have sex while pregnant? And I feel like the baby is joining. Yeah, it's safe. As long as the membranes haven't released, of course, you can have sex. It's totally safe. Great. It's a great way to get into labor. I mean, early in pregnancy, middle of pregnancy, it really shouldn't even be that noticeable. late pregnancy when you're 39 weeks and you're having sex, you know, yeah, you're gonna feel that baby's head. But it's not gonna hurt him. I mean, don't be too high on yourself, you know?

The baby isn't gonna come out and be like, what was that? What the heck are you doing? You'll never have to explain yourself. The next one? Oh, no, wait, wait. We're in our rapid fire here. Yeah, of course, we're gonna go casual, right? Do athletic women deliver later than others?

Maybe sometimes shore could be not necessarily very helpful. Trisha, thank you so much. How important is it to really drink a lot of water in pregnancy. It's very embarrassing. So you're half your body weight in ounces per day, at least but just at least visual that is very helpful. At least that's when you're not even pregnant. But one visual that's really helpful for my clients is that amniotic fluid seeks to replace itself three times a day, and your baby is excreting into that fluid and that then floats around goes back into baby's mouth through the baby's system. Okay, crikey. Crikey. Okay, okay, I got it. But that's a good visual that helps women to want to replace and replenish that water. Happy? Yes. Yes, my stopwatch is running out of time. We gotta get these gonna get better quickies run is the best time to hire a doula and enroll in HypnoBirthing as soon as possible for both doula especially because she might book up HypnoBirthing the founder recommended as early as possible in pregnancy but as you're pregnant, yeah mean just sign up. You can take the class anytime in pregnancy. But the recommendation is always early than later because it is about conditioning and not memory retention as though you are going to sit for an exam. So as soon as you feel excited and ready, that's when to take HypnoBirthing. But get a doula as soon as possible. One last point I know it's a quickie. But doulas charge a fixed rate. So the earlier you hire a doula The earlier you have their support in your network of people who are there for you through pregnancy and birth without any added v. So why wait until the end? When you're paying the same price and you're doing without their support throughout pregnancy? Stop giving me that look, am I going too slowly still? How quick Do they have any cancer experience? Finish a paragraph?

Do babies have to cry immediately after birth? No. Next? Well, it helps but no, no, they don't look I don't have to cry. But they have to grieve. They have to breathe. video I show in class. They're not crying. It really becomes a little Oh, yeah, they don't have to. But can it help if they're struggling a little bit to make that transition? I think it does. Yes.

But they have breathing, not crying. And I may Gaskin says that the baby has no choice but to experience the emotions of the mother because emotions are hormones. So if the mother is extremely calm, it's very normal to see a baby born completely calmly and to be completely quiet. But that said, birth is a shock. And many babies even in the calm circumstance are shocked by the cold air the bright lights. Yes.

And if they have a little extra fluid in their lungs, the crying is going to help more than just taking your breath.

What age should parents and Oh, I feel bad stuff. Oh, child bathing together? What age should parent and child stop eating together? I mean, I guess I would just say when it feels starts to feel a little awkward and I'm awkward.

I don't get you. I think normally with these things the child dictates like there's a point where they start closing the bathroom door. Right. As they're preteens at the latest they'll start closing the bedroom door when they're changing and then let the child drive a little bit but baths is I just hasn't crossed my mind. I don't know. You'll know. Nice. Very helpful. Why don't we just say that? I'm every question, Trisha. You'll know how old is too old to breastfeed and you'll know you will? Well, okay.

Well, I think many people would be really surprised to learn that around the world, the average age that a child's self leans is over four years old. 4.2 to be exact.

That's absolutely shocking to me. If that's right, I would invest the upper end of any range that's fine on average.

That is the average around the world. This world. I think the overall point of this quickie is that it's well first of all, it's dependent on what you feel comfortable with, but it's later than most people would expect.

Maybe normally drive here don't they normally self wean.

If you're just absolutely this is self weaning. Right okay, we're talking I guess she's wondering, I thought she was wondering like when should I cut my baby off but you're just she's really wondering like When will my baby finally stop? And normally when women are breastfeeding this late it can be once every many days or a couple of weeks. They just might come to nurse for a little bit every now and then because they are every few days or something Yeah, because it's not about it changes they've just like their way of getting comfort still a pacifier essentially

but there's no nutrition at four years old. Really?

Right. Last question what were this was that was really not a very quick quickie.

We have not done well with quickies to know we this is not quicky quicky stuff we're gonna work on our cookies. what words to use when declining and intervention and labor? No, no, no or I do not consent done. I do I do not consent is a little more powerful. It's powerful providers attention it'll get their attention because they'll know you know it's a law that they cannot break that's a wrap the workout. Okay, we went we went way over on the quick use tonight.

It's how we handle them. It's how we handle you know what I mean? Some people aren't about quickies Trisha.

I mean I understand that okay, I'm glad you do.

Thank you for joining us at the Down To Birth Show. You can reach us @downtobirthshow on Instagram or email us at Contact@DownToBirthShow.com. All of Cynthia’s classes and Trisha’s breastfeeding services are offered live online, serving women and couples everywhere. Please remember this information is made available to you for educational and informational purposes only. It is in no way a substitute for medical advice. For our full disclaimer visit downtobirthshow.com/disclaimer. Thanks for tuning in, and as always, hear everyone and listen to yourself.