#392 | When a Postpartum Preeclampsia Diagnosis Doesn't Add Up: Morgan's Story

I'm Cynthia Overgard, birth educator, advocate for informed consent, and postpartum support specialist. And I'm Trisha Ludwig, certified nurse midwife and international board certified lactation consultant. And this is the Down To Birth Show. Childbirth is something we're made to do. But how do we have our safest and most satisfying experience in today's medical culture? Let's dispel the myths and get down to birth.

I'm Morgan, and I'm married to Wendell, and I have three littles. I have Naomi; she just turned five. Asa is going to be three in December, and I just had Winston four months ago. And I'm 34, and I live in Indiana.

Like, okay, Wendell and Winston, two awesome boy names. We're always struggling with boy names, and those are both fantastic names.

Thank you.

Yeah, Asa's a great name too.

Thank you. Yeah, I really wanted unique names that weren't weird, and so that was, like, my goal. And I would check to make sure they weren't in the top, you know, like, in America or whatever. But Wendell is a second, and so that's the only reason he's not Wendell, is because we don't, it's just two's enough. Like, we're like, we don't need three. So Winston was kind of a play on, you know, the W of Wendell, but yes.

So my first is Naomi, and so she was a hospital birth. I basically knew nothing. I say I knew nothing. My sister had four kids by the time I had Naomi, and so all I knew was hospital birth, and it was, like, fine, and it was just, like, whatever, and that's just what you did. And so I actually used the same doctor that my sister had used in all of her births, and it was fine.

The only thing that I knew, I was not, like, crunchy, holistic. Like, I just, but I had never been sick. I had no reason to be. You know, I didn't really care either way. I just knew you had babies in the hospital. The only thing that I knew is that I didn't want to vaccinate my kids. Like, that's the only thing, because my sister did it. Like, that was one thing that she had researched even at a really young age, that she had researched and decided not to, and I knew all of her research, and I was like, that's the only thing I know that I don't want to do.

And so I'll just hit, like, a couple points. It was a very, very healthy pregnancy, very normal, very joyful. I loved being pregnant. My doctor was okay. It was 2021, so I never saw her face. It was just, like, that very, like, kind of, that was the only thing I was like, it just feels so cold. Like, I don't even know what she really looks like because I hadn't seen her for years, and it was just very quick.

Like, I always told Wendell, I was like, I just feel like I just want to, like, say a couple more things. Like, she would just be like, "Do you have anything you want to talk about?" And I'm a people pleaser, and I would just be like, "No," because I felt like I was bothering her. So I just, no, and then I'd get home and say all these questions, and he's like, "Why don't you ask your doctor that?" And I was like, "I don't know. I don't feel like I can. I feel like she's in a rush. Like, I feel like she's in a hurry."

And so that was, like, the only thing. But it felt normal to me. And then the only, like, some of the things that happened before I had the baby was I knew I didn't want to vaccinate my kids, and I didn't even know that you got vaccines when you were pregnant.

And so the nurse walked in one day and was like, "Oh, we're going to get your Tdap," I think is what it was. And I was like, "Oh, no, I'm not going to do that today." And she was like, "Why?" And I was like, "Oh, I just know I don't want to. I didn't even know that that was going to happen today, you know. I'll research it and tell you next time if I change my mind, but I'm not going to do that."

And she was like, "Well, you know that this isn't just about you." And this was, like, the first thing because, like, again, like, I wasn't crunchy. I didn't know home birth, birth center birth. So I was just like, "I know, but I just know that I don't want to do that today. You guys didn't even tell me that that was going to happen."

And she said, "Well, I'm going to go get the doctor and ask her if that's okay and if you are allowed to not do that." Like, that's literally what she said, and I was like, oh.

So I'm, like, sitting there, like, anxious now. I'm like, because again, I'm a people pleaser, and so I was just like, ask her if I'm allowed? Like, what are they going to do if I say no? You know, like, I have all these running through my head. Like, am I allowed? Are they going to call, like, CPS on me, or, you know?

And so she left, and then the doctor came in, and she was like, "Can you tell me why you're not going to take this vaccine?" And I said, "I just didn't know it was going to happen, and I would like time to research it."

And she said, "Well, I want to let you know," which is crazy because it feels like it's cliché, and it's not. She said, "I have literally seen a mom and a baby die because they didn't take that."

And I was like, "Okay." And she was like, "So, I mean, that's what you're putting your baby at risk for if you choose not to do this today."

And I'm so thankful. I don't know what it was inside me, but I was just like, "I thank you for telling me that, I guess, but I still am choosing not to do that, and I will research it, and I will let you know next time if I change my mind."

But from the rest of the appointments, I just felt so uneasy, and I felt uncomfortable. You know, I was just, like, waiting for them to, you know, tell me the next thing that I wasn't allowed to do or whatever.

So I just want to say, well done, Morgan.

Thank you.

Because in my years of doing this work and getting really close to a lot of women, I have been so surprised at times at which women were able to assert themselves. It's a really difficult thing to do. It's difficult for me, and probably no one would ever think it is. It's difficult for me too in situations like that. But I see so many mild-mannered women, self-professed people pleasers, who still navigate their way. They're still okay in their gentle manner. They still establish the decision, the boundary, and you're uncomfortable on the inside. You never feel totally safe around those people again, understandably, after that psychological nonsense.

But, you know, you're a young woman in this situation. I just want to tell you, well done, because I want everyone to know you don't need to have a highly confident, assertive, or whatever personality you think you need to have. You can be your lovely, gentle self and still stand your ground. And you did so.

I would also like to add that even if you aren't a people pleaser and you are very well versed in saying no, it can still be really difficult. I mean, Cynthia and I are constantly talking about this on the podcast, and I still run into it when I go to the dentist and refuse X-rays, and they, you know, they bring in the, like, they're basically going to kick me out of the practice, and they're interrogating you on why you're choosing not to have X-rays today. And it's very hard to stand your ground. You kind of just want to, in that moment, be like, "Well, I just, you know, okay, fine, okay, just this once."

And they shouldn't ask why. You also have the right to say, "Well, I'm not going to be discussing why, thank you." You don't. I always tell this to women: you don't have to answer every question that is asked of you. I find it all, you don't have to present the research on why you're choosing to decline. You don't even have to say why. That's the thing when they say, "Oh, may I ask why?" Because, yeah, you know what? I'd rather not.

Yeah.

But that's my decision. It's easier than going, like, hemming and hawing, and so anyway, all those methods work, but I also want to remind women they don't have to answer questions that are asked of them. You have to find another way through it so it's not super awkward, but you can just, you know, "I'd rather not get into why."

What happens is when you get uncomfortable, you know, you want to keep speaking to fill the void, and so you say things, say things, say things. Just sit there. Just don't say anything because they'll eventually speak or they'll walk away, and then you're done with it. So, little tip of advice: say politely, "I decline." Say no more.

Yes. Yeah. No, 100%. And I truly, like, I'm like, where did that come from? But I know, like, I'm so thankful that that was, like, it's buried down there somewhere, you know. And then I saw that later in my birth too. But it really did shake me up. Like, I mean, I remember, like, crying at my last couple appointments and just feeling like nobody cared. They were just kind of like, like, I don't know. It seemed to bother them, you know. But it just, it really did shape the rest of the appointments, and that was towards the end. I think you get that pretty close to the end.

But my last appointment, 39 weeks, and she was like, "This is a huge baby. If you don't have her in the next couple days, we'll put you on the schedule for induction." And she was like, "And I just want to remind you," it's just so funny because they literally are all like they're on a script. She's like, "I just want to remind you that not getting the epidural, you get absolutely no prize for. So just want to keep that in mind."

And I was like, okay. Like, it was just so funny.

Which, again, that comment.

I know. I was just like, okay.

So anyway, 39 and five, my water broke after an appointment. I had an appointment. They checked me. It was absolutely terribly painful. So I think that maybe they, like, swept me or something. Like, she didn't just, like, put her, like, now that I've been checked by, like, a home birth midwife, like, I was like, that is not what she did. I think she maybe stripped my membranes or something, but my water broke, like, 20 minutes after that appointment, and I went straight back to the hospital because that's what they told me to do.

She told me I had one hour to progress. I got there and I was, like, one centimeter dilated. She's like, "You have one hour to progress. If you don't progress, we're going to start you on Pitocin."

And again, I don't, it's hard for me to tell the story because I want to keep saying, like, "And I didn't know," but anyway, you know, I didn't know anything, so I was like, okay. So I walked around, walked around. She came back, and I think I was at, like, a three when she—

I'm so speechless from that. I can't even continue listening. You were in early labor.

I know.

You could have been dozens of hours from the next centimeter in early labor.

Days, actually.

That's what I'm saying. Dozens of hours, days. I can't believe that.

I know, it's—

And the words you get, I'm sure it is hard to retell it with the perspective you have today.

Yes.

But anyway, go on.

Okay, so we walk around. I think I, like, was three. I wasn't even having, like, I didn't feel contractions. You know, they told me I was having contractions, but I didn't feel anything. And they checked me. "You're only at three." She was like, "So you are not progressing like we want to see."

Wait, you weren't even feeling contractions? They were telling you you were having contractions? You were not in labor.

No, right, right. Like, my water had broken, and that's it. And she was like, "Your risk for infection has increased by this much." Which now I know, I'm like, it's because you're sticking your hand up me. But she was like, "You haven't progressed enough. We need to start Pitocin."

So they started me on Pitocin, which was the worst experience of my entire life. It was so fast. Like, it just happened so fast. Like, I went from, like, feeling nothing to, like, excruciating pain. And I had sweet nurses. I really want to talk, my first few nurses were so sweet. Like, the one, like, prayed for me and stuff, and I was like, okay, I want an epidural. Like, I can't take this because within, like, four hours, they had the Pitocin at the highest level. Like, I can look at the numbers and stuff. They had it at, like, 17, and that was the max that they could. She said, "We've got you maxed now," and I was like, I can't do this.

And so they went and got the epidural. Funny story: I had no clue what an epidural does. I absolutely went into a panic. I was like, "I can't feel my legs," and then I was like, "I can't feel," like, and I freaked out, and they're like, "What did you think an epidural did?" And I was like, "I just thought it took away the pain. I didn't know it numbed me," and I'm, like, terrified of, like, being numb. That's, like, one of my greatest fears.

So clearly zero informed consent. They didn't even tell you what the medication was going to do to you.

Oh, zero informed consent. Like, there was never any informed consent. There was no, like, "Hey, this is what this is gonna do." Like, when she said, "Well, do you want to take, we're gonna get you some anxiety medicine because you're just clearly..." And I was like, "Well, does it affect the baby?" And she's like, "Not really." And I was like, "Okay, no, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do anything that affects the baby," not knowing, like, the epidural is affecting the baby, you know.

And so it was awful. They ended up turning the epidural down because I was panicking so much, and apparently they gave me a really high dose of it, like, where I was literally paralyzed. Like, I couldn't feel anything. Like, some women say they can feel, like, a little or kind of move their, no. I was, like, completely paralyzed, couldn't move.

And then they were like, "Okay, you're 10 centimeters dilated. It's time to push." Well, I could feel nothing. Like, when I say nothing, I could feel nothing. And so I start pushing. I pushed for four and a half hours, and the doctor sat down there for maybe an hour at the end, you know, like, doing this and stretching me, and they would be like, "Oh, there's her head. You got it, you got it," and then they'd be like, "Oh, she's back in." And it was just this whole, it was so defeating.

I was so tired. They wouldn't let me eat, you know. I was puking the whole time, and I was so dehydrated. And I'm like, "I need a drink." And the nurse that came on, she was so mean. She was like, "No more water for her, nothing. She gets no more to drink." And I was like, "I'll die if you don't give me water." And she was like, "You're done. You get no more. She's just gonna keep puking. You're done." And I was like, oh my God. So I'm, like, dehydrated. Like, I couldn't swallow. It was literal torture.

Abuse.

Abuse.

Yeah. Oh, abuse. Absolutely. It really was. Now that I look back, it's hard for me to even really think about it. Sad for me, especially now that I've had the other births.

But then the doctor said, "Okay, she's way too big, and you are way too small. We've got to go to emergency C-section."

They're so textbook. This is so textbook.

It was. It was. It's crazy because I'm like, literally, it's like a script. Like, they all have it in their own. "You are way too small."

I'm sorry. You're just diminutive. You are just, what, what, what nonsense. You're way too small. You're a normal human being.

Right.

And there are whole countries where people are significantly smaller than the average American woman or the average small American woman, but it gets into the head. You're way, oh, oh, you're way too, we didn't really get a good look at you before. You're just tiny.

That's what I thought. I thought, just now you're just deciding that, like, four and a half hours in?

Right, because it's very convenient to decide that in the moment that she's ready to be done with your birth.

You're not, you're not just, like, you're not just implanted with a random general baby. You are building the baby within your own body, obviously, no matter what size a woman is.

Yes.

Even truly diminutive people are able to conceive and give birth, of course, because they're building their own babies.

Yes. Yeah.

Okay, go on.

I was like, "What?" And it just took me so off guard. And I heard her say to the nurse, "We're going to have to push the baby back up through the birth canal." And I was like, "Is this dangerous?" And she said, "This is all dangerous now. Either way, like, we are just in a dangerous situation." And I was like, "What?"

And I said, "No." And that's another place where I'm like, where did this come from? Like, because it's just not who I was. Like, "No, no, I'm not. I'm not going to a C-section." And I literally, like, went, like, Hulk mode. Like, Wendell was like, "I've never seen anything like it," and I, like, was like, I'm not kidding. I, like, turned into the Hulk. Like, I was just like, I have to do it.

And I was like, "Turn the epidural off. I don't want it anymore." I just knew, like, if they could get the epidural off and I could feel, because, like, they had seen her head, I had seen her head, and I was like, no.

You got your mama bear came right out in that moment. You're like, my baby is right here. I saw your baby's head.

Yes. Oh, they had a mirror. They gave me a mirror while I was pushing with the epidural because they were like, "Oh, maybe if you can see her, like, it'll give you, like, the whatever." So I had, like, not just a tiny bit of her head. Like, I saw her head coming out, and then when I would stop, it would just, like, suction her back up.

Okay, but why? Why were they saying you have to go to the C-section at that point? Was there something wrong with her heart rate, or they just—

They just, like, "Oh, this baby is too big."

Unreal, this story.

So I said no. So they turned off the epidural, which was obviously just, I mean, it's just all torture. It was all torture. That's truly how I felt. But when they turned it off, I'm at 17 Pitocin, and, you know, so anyway, I Hulk, and literally, she was like, "All right, I'm gonna cut you. Like, she's here. I'm gonna cut you," and she just cut.

And honestly, I didn't care in the moment. Like, I didn't remember thinking, "Oh no, don't cut me." I didn't care. I just wanted her out. Like, I had been 24 hours, I had been pushing for almost five hours, cut me. And then, like, she literally, like, reached in and just, like, pulled her out and set her on my chest, and it was a blur.

I don't remember feeling joy. I remember feeling relief, like, oh God, it's done. And I truly didn't think it was going to be done. And, like, then she, I just remember the next thing I remember is she stuck her hand in me and she swept. I know that's, I didn't know then, but she swept my placenta, and I just, it was the most excruciating thing I've ever experienced. I could, like, it felt like I could literally feel, like, her nails, like, you know, like, digging. It was awful.

I cannot believe this. We talked about this in episode 200 with Barbara Harper, and she agrees that I think that should be illegal without a freaking court order. I mean, so, you know, like, they treat it like scooping the seeds out of a pumpkin or something. Then they put their entire hand, not just inside your vagina, inside your uterus, and scoop out an organ that's attached with capillaries.

Yes.

You scoop it out. What do they think is going to happen? That you're going to be a retired woman who still has her placenta in?

And I mean, it was like, I mean, they didn't wait at all. She just immediately, she didn't ask me. She just did. And Wendell said, Wendell's like, "Her arm, she was this far up you." He's like, "It was the craziest thing I've ever seen." And again, he just—

You just gestured. You just gestured up to your elbow or beyond your elbow.

Yes, yes. Like, he literally said she was this deep in you, and that's assault. And that was, it was assault. Yeah. And so then the rest of it was just a blur. It was just—

It's actually sexual assault. It's medical assault. It's sexual assault.

Yes, and that's how it felt. And it's crazy. If I look at my chart, like, afterwards, I read the notes and I cried over them because it was like, "Uncomplicated delivery." Like, it was just like this really, like, butterflies and roses, like, beautiful. Like, they didn't mention, like, the C-section stuff. They didn't mention anything. They didn't mention sweeping the placenta. It was like, "Uncomplicated delivery of placenta." Like, it was just like—

That's zero regard for your experience of it.

Right, right. I expected it to be like, oh, it was this. It was, no. It was just like, beautiful. And I was like, wow. It just feels like I'm living in a, you know, like, alternate universe or something. I just, I went back even to look at the notes because I just, like, wanted, I wanted, like, it to, like, confirm, like, validate how I felt. And it just, like, then I was like, this is all lies. Like, this isn't true. Like, I don't know. It was really hard.

It was like, no more kids. I never will do that again. And then I got pregnant with Asa, and I was like, oh my God. And I just dove into, I was like, there has to be a different way. I can't do it that way again.

And I found your podcast. I just started, like, binging, like, birth education podcasts, birth stories, and quickly decided that I was going to go with a birth center. We had a birth center. It just went away. It was the one in Central Indiana, and it just closed. But it was about 40 minutes away.

And to say it was literally night and day, that my first appointment, like, they had me, like, lay down on a couch, and, like, just, it was just so beautiful. They were like, "Can we take your blood pressure? Do you want to do that today?"

They treated you with some respect. That's a basic thing. That was the difference. They just treated you like a human and asked your permission and made you feel relaxed and calm and gave you some dignity back.

Right, right. And it was like, so quickly they did that, and they did, like, I obviously told them my story, and so they were even more, I feel like they were just, I mean, that's probably just who they are. But they were just so considerate of my story. All the midwives knew. There were, like, five, actually five midwives there. But they all knew, and they all treated me like I was just this precious little thing that they were like, "We're not gonna hurt you. Like, we're gonna take care of you. This is going to be amazing. It's not gonna be like that," you know.

And just all of my fear, they would just basically let me word vomit the entire time because I would just be like, "Well, I'm scared," because I was just terrified of transferring. That was my fear with Asa's birth. It was such a good birth, and I was so healthy, and every appointment was great. The only thing I wish is that I could have just, like, let go of the fear of transferring and just, like, really enjoyed the appointments because every time I felt like I just came back to that.

But it really was incredible. And my water broke again. So 39 and five with Naomi, 39 and four with Asa. My water broke. Called my midwife, and she's like, "Go back to sleep. You need to sleep. Just start resting." Which was crazy because, like, for the first one, I went straight back, and, you know, they gave me one hour to progress, and my midwife's like, "Try to sleep." She's like, "I know it's gonna be hard, but please sleep."

So I tried as much as I could, and I think I slept for, like, three hours. Woke up with some, like, one contraction, and that was it. I literally, at 11:30, I wrote it down because at 11:30 I called the birth center because my husband made me, because I kept saying, "I think that I am having gas pains, but I don't think that they're contractions."

And he's like, "Can you just tell me when you're having the gas pains?" Because he had done a lot of research too. He's like an engineer, and so he's very research. So he had done his own research, how to support me, what it would look like, you know, all this stuff, which is great. But he's like, "Can you just tell me when you're feeling those gas pains?"

And I was like, "Sure." So I'm like, "Oh, there it is," and then I'm like, "Okay, it's done," and then he's like, "Okay, so I have this contraction timer, and to me it sounds like you're having contractions every two to three minutes that are lasting for, like, you know."

And I was like, "Wendell, no, these are not contractions. I promise you." He's like, "Will you just call your midwife?"

So I called, and it was my favorite midwife, and she was like, "Well, let me just hear you work." I was like, "Okay, it's starting. Okay, it's stopping." And I really didn't do anything. And she was like, "So you're not having to, you know, like, you can still talk through them?" And I was like, "Yeah." I was like, "It's not painful."

But I just think it's so amazing. Like, midwives are so intuitive because she was like, "You know, Morgan, I just feel like you need to head here." And I was like, I wasn't annoyed. I was just kind of like, I think it's not necessary, but I will because, well, that's fine. She's like, "Well, just come in and we'll just see how you're doing."

Well, as soon as I got in the car, like, I had a huge gush, like, more in the back seat, leaned up against the back thing, you know, and I had contractions the whole way there. It was like truly car tractions. It was the worst part, but it was fine. Like, it was like I worked through them, but my husband drove, like, literally, like, 95 miles an hour because we were 40 minutes from the birth center. And I mean, I'm back, like, he's never even really heard me work through contractions because the hospital, it was, you know.

And I was like, "Wendell, if you kill us before we get there, it won't matter." And he was like, "I promise, I'm not even going fast." I was like, "I can feel how fast you're going." And, like, the whole time, like, I would look at him, and he's just, like, terrified because he was like, "I didn't want to have a baby in the car. I just wanted to have a baby at the birth center," the beautiful birth center where they had twinkly lights and a bathtub.

So as soon as we got there, I got out of the car, and the midwife came out. I was like, "I'm sorry, I peed on myself. Can I get in the shower?" But it was just so, like, I was just so normal. Like, we're just still talking. I get in the shower, my doula came, and I was just like, "Hold on," and I would just, like, work through it. And then I'd be like, "Okay," and then I would just talk.

And that was, so 11:30 I called the birth center. 12:40 I was admitted to the birth center, and it was literally maybe an hour of just kind of, like, hanging out, talking, but just working through. Anytime I'd have a contraction, I would just kind of just be like, "Hold on."

And then all of a sudden it was, like, switched, and my midwife was like, "Will you go do one contraction on the toilet for me?" And I went and I sat on the toilet and I did one contraction, and she was like, "Maybe get in the tub." And I was like, "I don't think it's time." And she was like, "I think it's time."

And never once asked to check me. I said, "Do you want to, like, do I need to be checked or something? I don't think it's time. I don't want to get in too early. I don't want to just be, like, sitting in the tub and get out of the tub."

And she said, "I will check you if you want me to, and I don't think that you need to be checked. I think that you're good." It was just, like, so amazing looking back. She was so in tune with what was happening, and it was so beautiful.

And I was like, "Okay."

So I got in the tub, and within 30 minutes, I wrote down, he was born. And I never, I never, like, she, there was no push or, you know, I just, like, started having, like, really grunty contractions, and she was like, "That's it. Just, you just let those go. Don't, you know, don't hold back. Just let it go."

And I was like, "Okay," and his head came out, and then she was like, she said, "I'm just gonna check for a cord," and she said, "There's no cord. You're good to go." Which it's funny that she said that because it wouldn't matter. He literally, like, ejected me in the next, and she set him up on my chest, and it was just beautiful, and it was the most incredible thing that I've ever experienced, and obviously very redemptive considering my first birth.

And then I'll quickly move on because I do want to hit this because I really want to talk about the postpartum preeclampsia because I couldn't ever find resources on it, and that was very discouraging for me when I was pregnant with my third.

And so my first blood pressure, postpartum blood pressure read, was 138 over 94, and she told me, "I just want you to know that your 94 is over our threshold, and so we do have to keep checking it because I'll have to transfer you to the hospital if it doesn't go down."

And again, this is hard for me too because now I've learned so much. I think I had some elevated blood pressure reads. I think that I had some elevated labs. I don't think that everything that happened to me was necessary. I think I became a product of, you know, I got put into the medical system, and they just treated me just like they would have if I was severely preeclamptic.

It was 138?

138 over 94. And she told me, I wish she wouldn't have told me. So then the next time she checked me, which now I know, like, she's like, "Okay, breathe. Like, just think about, you know, rainbows and butterflies." And it was 150 over 92.

And she was like, "Now you're allowed to stay here for," I think I was allowed to stay for, like, six hours or something at the birth center. Maybe it was four hours. I think it was four hours, now that I'm looking at my timeline. So they checked it, checked it every hour, and my last reading was 138 over 94. Again, mildly elevated.

And so now, again, looking back, they had to transfer, they had to suggest transfer because they were state, like, monitored, like, they were monitored by the state. They have to go by certain rules. I didn't have to go. I didn't know that, you know. But so I transferred to the hospital.

But I will say there was one midwife there who, she actually got fired after my birth, but she sat down next to me, and I was like, she was like, "We're gonna call the ambulance." And I was like, "No, do not call the ambulance." The hospital was literally one minute away from the birth center, and I was fine. I had no other symptoms, and she was like, "This is very serious. Like, this could be a future indicator of, like, future health problems, heart problems."

And I was like, "What?" And she's like, "This is very serious." And I knew nothing about blood pressure, so I didn't know that 138 over 94 is not extremely serious. It's not. It's not, especially when I'm, I was anxious. Like, I was anxious. I just wanted to go home. I just had a baby. Like, even though it was a beautiful experience, it still was, I just had a baby, you know.

And so I did agree to transfer. So I drove myself over to the hospital, and when I got to the hospital, I was admitted to triage, and it was just awful because it's just the hospital. And I just had a baby, and now the baby's screaming, and I'm trying to feed it in a hospital room. And I did have a small tear, so I just had that fixed.

But now I'm in triage, so I'm, like, sitting in this, like, chair. It's not like I was, like, in a, not that there is a cozy room in the hospital, but it's not like I was, like, in my hospital room in my bed, you know. And people are just in and out, and the blood pressure cuff is going off. And every time it would go off, it would be, like, if it was, like, bad. And I was like, so every time that would happen, I would be like, my heart would start pounding, and, like, the whole time, like, my heart rate was just so elevated. And every time they would take my heart, or my blood pressure, my heart, it would be, like, 120 in a sitting, calm, breathe, you know.

Right. So that should always be taken into consideration.

Yeah, and that's not, it's zero taken into consideration in the hospital. And so when I was preparing for this episode, I actually found something that was like, wait, what?

So they decide to admit me, and I go up to the room, and this nurse walks in, and, like, she's like, "Okay, take this." And I was like, "What's this?" And she was like, "Oh, it's blood pressure medication." And I was like, "Well, what is it?" She said the name of it, and I was like, "Well, can you explain that drug to me?" No, no idea. And I was like, "Well, can somebody come explain that drug to me?" And she was like, "Well, if you'll just take it, then we'll have a doctor."

I was like, "I'm not taking a medicine until I talk to somebody." But I said, "Is it going to affect my milk supply? Does it do anything with breastfeeding?" And she's like, "Oh no, no, no, no. Like, if anything, if you end up on magnesium, that could affect your milk supply, but not this."

And I was like, "Okay, I'm not taking it until I talk to a doctor. I want to talk to a doctor. I'm not taking medicine. I just had a baby. I'm breastfeeding." You know, she was very bothered.

And so, like, an hour later, a doctor walked in. She's like, "You wanted to talk?" And I was like, "Yeah, I just want to talk about the medicine you want me to take."

So she explains it, and it was funny because I said, "Will it affect my breast milk?" And she's like, "This could affect a little bit. If you end up on magnesium, that won't affect it."

And, like, so they literally said the opposite things, and I was like, "Well, your nurse just said," and she's like, "Oh, I don't know why she said that. That's not true." And she's like, "But it's not gonna, like, dry you up. You're gonna be fine," blah, blah, blah. And she's like, "You really need to take it. Like, your blood pressures are trending very high. Like, you need to take it."

And I was like, okay, whatever. So I took it, and then they're like, "Okay, your blood pressures are still not going down. Like, we're going to keep you overnight, monitor you."

So they took blood work and went away or whatever. So my first note, I'm looking down because I printed it out. She put, it was like 10:14 p.m., she put, "Blood pressures mild range in triage, labs normal with exception of very mild elevation, ALT very mild." Like, those are the words that she wrote, like, she typed.

And the next morning she came in. "You are severely preeclamptic. You are on the border of eclamptic." And I was like, okay. And she was like, "Which, if you become eclamptic, like, that's risk of seizures. Like, you are very close to that. Like, you are at risk of seizing." Which is terrifying.

And she was like, "So I need you to do this magnesium for 24 hours." And I was like, even though, like, she was terrifying me, I was, like, still at the stage, like, I'm pushing back because I know too much. But she was like, "Morgan, I want to keep you with your family. Like, that's my goal, is to keep you with your family. So you just had a baby, and I understand that you're afraid and you don't like this, but I'm trying to keep you with your family."

And that, like, really hit me. And Wendell's like, "Let's do it. Like, we need to do it." And so I asked the nurse when she came back in. I said, "If it was your daughter, like, would you?" And she's like, "That's a great question. Like, yes, I would."

And so I did it. But then I read the note, which was exact, so this is her note. I guess, I mean, it was either right before, no, it would have been right after she talked to me because it says, "Patient agrees to start magnesium." So that's after she comes in and tells me I'm severely preeclamptic, borderline eclamptic, and it says, "Despite starting Toprol last night, her BP is persistently mild range, ALT's elevated at admission and slightly higher this morning."

So I started very mild elevation of this thing, and now they're slightly elevated this morning. I was just like, those, like, she came in and made me feel like I was going to die, and then in my notes, like, she said, "You are severe." So I'm expecting it to say severely preeclamptic, and it says, like, yeah, mildly.

And even my nurse, I said, "So do you think that, what would have happened to me if I'd have just gone home?" And she was like, "Well, I looked at all your stuff. I think you would have been fine. Like, you are young and healthy, and you would have been fine. But we have to treat everybody the same because we have seen women who are not fine, and so we just have to treat everybody with the same caution."

Quite a different message from the one you got. Well, do you remember what your blood pressure was that morning?

Oh, yeah. So the last one before I took medicine was 143 over 84, and it's just trending down now. Trending down. It's not going up. It's trending down. And so then I have 24 hours' worth of blood pressures, and they're all, like, 120 over 70s.

The morning she called you severely preeclamptic, they were 120s over?

Yes, and she says that's unbelievable. It's because I, she's like, "Well, blood pressure is even with that medicine," but I was on, like, the lowest dose of Toprol that you could take, and I had taken one. And so, and again, now I've learned so much. I can look back and be like, absolutely not. Like, that was not.

And I was like, when I say anxiety, I was like, it was the first time I left my daughter. Like, you know, I'd never left her, so I had that. I was just so sad because of this. I was terrified of the medical system, and they just come in and, like, like, the one nurse, like, kept coming in and, like, checking my reflexes, and she'd be like, like, they like to, like, do these things. Like, nobody came in, like, "You're gonna be okay."

Like, the one time, and I wrote it down. I wrote it literally. This nurse walked in, and she just started, like, making me so anxious. She's like, "Let's see what it is." And I was like, oh my gosh. And that was my highest read through the night. It was 146 over 93, and she goes, and she goes, "No bueno."

Oh my God. Are you kidding? Wait, she didn't make that sound, did she?

Yes, that's literally what she did.

And then said "no bueno." She actually said that?

And it wasn't, she was making a joke out of it.

Right. Like, I was just like, I said, "I really don't need," I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm, like, really anxious. Like, can, like, nobody talk about my blood pressure anymore?" I was like, "That was super inappropriate." Like, she's like, "Oh, I'm sorry."

And, like, again, this is not me. Like, I was just like, and I was like, "You know what? I'm done wearing this stupid cuff." And I, like, took it off, and that was when I slept. I finally slept. Like, I had kind of slept the entire time, and so I finally slept. And when they put the blood pressure cuff back on me after that, that's when my blood pressures were, like, 120s over 80. So, like, they stayed 120s over 80.

And wait, so do you now have white coat hypertension?

Oh, absolutely. That was, like, so—

That's, like, the classic setup for that.

Yes, and that's, like, with the third pregnancy. And so anyway, that all resolved, and I was like, I'm done. I say it resolved. I got thrown to, I got transferred to a random doctor because now I'm on blood pressure medication, and somebody has to monitor that.

And they, like, I went in there 150 over 90 when I was having perfect blood pressures at home, and the first girl that took it, she was like, "How do you feel?" Like, I'm not kidding. Like, I'm not being dramatic because I'm not a dramatic person. She was like, "I need you to stay right there. Please don't move."

Oh, come on.

"Okay, please don't move." Literally ran out of the room, comes back, and, like, she came back and she was like, "The doctor would like you to go over to the emergency room."

I was like, "I'm not going to the emergency room. I'm going home. I am not doing this." And so she left and then came back. She's like, "Okay, the doctor said that's fine. Just she'll call you with your labs."

So they made me go do labs. My labs were fine, but during this process, the doctor had, like, tripled my blood pressure medication, and I did it, which is stupid, but I did it because I was scared. And then I was having these crazy low reads at home. Like, it was, like, 100 over 60, and I'm, like, messaging, like, "Should I stop taking this medicine?" I'm calling, they won't answer, like, because this lady didn't care about me, in the nicest way possible. I'm sure she cares about her patients, but she had, we had no relationship. She's just a random doctor in my town that they had to transfer care to because the midwives weren't allowed to do that for me.

And so she's like, "Hey, Morgan, go ahead and just stop taking the medicine." And I was like, okay. So I just, like, cold turkey stopped the medicine, and then my blood pressure, like, shot up, which I have found out, I had a friend who had preeclampsia, and she's like, "My doctor was like, we have to, like, carefully wean you off of this medicine or else your blood pressure, like, your body will respond, and, like, your blood pressure will skyrocket." Like, she literally had me cutting pills in half, and this doctor was like, "Just cold turkey stop."

So then my blood pressure, like, up, and then they weren't answering. So it was just very sad, like, because postpartum, like, I didn't have, like, the baby blues like I did with Naomi, and, like, all of that sadness. But I had, like, this anxiety around, like, my health. Like, I would wake up in the middle of the night, like, thinking I had blood clots in my legs, and just, like, it caused, like, a lot of random scaries that, like, were so unnecessary, and so it's just, like, such a bummer.

But I eventually stopped taking the medicine, and my blood pressures were fine until I got pregnant again, and, like, I decided I want to do a home birth, and my blood pressures at home were running, like, 120s over 80s.

And so as I'm interviewing midwives, they're all, like, most of them were just, like, they were nice and everything, but they were just, like, preeclampsia. Like, everybody's scared of post, like, everybody was scared of, like, the postpartum preeclampsia. Like, that was, like, when I would say I had it, and it was like, "We just don't know a lot about it." And I'm like, okay.

And, but as soon as somebody would express, like, fear over it, that caused me to feel fear. And I didn't want a provider who was afraid of me.

And so I finally found one place, and they were like, oh, like, the girl was like, "Oh, we should be good. Like, you know, we'll check them, blah, blah. We have a lot of things. We have, like, supplements and this and that that you can take."

Well, my first appointment, I had the daughter. It was mom and daughter. The daughter was, like, very, she was very, like, chill. Like, she was like, "I don't think it's gonna be a problem. Just because you had it doesn't mean you're gonna have it again," blah, blah, blah. "We won't even make you take the readings in the office. Well, you can take it at home the night before and send them in."

Well, that was like, oh yeah, that's great. I love that.

And then the second appointment I had with her mom, and she was like, "Okay, what was your blood pressure last night? Can I see it?" So I showed her. It was 120 over 80. No, it was 117 over 83. And she was like, "I do not like 83."

And I was crushed because it was, like, my home birth midwife, and, like, that was a really good read for me, especially because I was trying to come off of that, like, white coat.

Even at home, I would have to calm myself down and breathe and get my heart rate down. Wendell would be like, "Well, it's 117 over 83, but your heart rate's, you know, 112, and you've been sitting down for 10 minutes. You have to calm down." So we'd have to work through that.

And so when she said that, I was just, like, so sad. She's like, "If it goes any higher, like, we're gonna have to talk." And I was like, I was only, like, 23 weeks pregnant, and I was like, what? Like, I was so sad, and I just started bawling, crying, and she was, like, just staring at me in, like, disgust. Like, she was just, like, blinking her eyes, and I was, like, sobbing.

I was like, "I just, I just don't want to feel this way." Like, I just had a mental breakdown crying, and then she was just like, "Okay, um," like, when I stopped, she was like, like I said, um, because she had mentioned, like, a few supplements, like, "I want you on this and this." Like, never said, like, "I'm sorry, it's okay. Like, it's gonna be okay." Like, just the most cold appointment, and I left.

And I told Wendell, I was like, "I can't. Like, I can't stay with them. Like, I have to find somebody else."

And so I just started praying and researching, but really just praying because there weren't, there aren't a lot around here. Like, I only had a few, and there was one, there were two that I hadn't reached out to.

So I texted one because that's how she preferred you to reach her, and she said, "We can try, but if it gets into high 120s or high 80s, then we'll have to look at transferring." And I was like, okay, she's out.

I was like, if this last one doesn't do it, I'm just gonna, whole pregnancy, free birth. Like, that's where I was at. I was like, I'm done because I know I'm okay.

And I went to this midwife, and she was like, "You're fine. This is crap. You are healthy. You do not have high blood pressure." And she was like, I was like, "But, like, are you gonna look for, like, are you gonna risk me out if it hits, like, this or this?"

She was like, "I am not looking for reasons to risk you out. I'm going to do everything in my power not to risk you out. I'm gonna make it really hard for you to risk out. Like, that's, we don't make it easy to risk out here."

And, like, that's what I needed to hear, and she was just like, "You're not gonna risk out. You're fine."

And that day her student midwife, like, got down on the ground next to me on her knees, and she, like, kind of, like, rubbing my legs, and she was like, "You are safe." And she was like, "I want you to wiggle your toes on the ground."

At first I was like, is this weird? And then I was like, no. And I literally just felt, like, this calm. And she was like, "You are okay." And, like, they all were like, "You're safe."

My blood pressure was, like, 112 over 70 or something. And it was, like, the best blood pressure I had had in, I mean, a couple years. And so I knew that they were the ones to go with.

And my highest blood pressure reading, I had 138 over, like, 79 one time, but I was so nervous, like, the whole time. I was just like, "I'm so nervous. Like, I don't know why. I just can't get calm today."

And so she was like, "Okay, your blood pressure's not bad. I know that it's only elevated because you're anxious, but we'll just run labs so that you know you're okay." Ran labs. They were all fine.

I say right now, we really, this is happening to way too many women, and we really need to stop using blood pressure cutoffs, thresholds as diagnosis for preeclampsia because it is causing what you're describing is happening to so many mothers, and they are ending up having inductions, C-sections, going back to the hospital postpartum.

And you know what? Blood pressure is a factor in it because when you have preeclampsia, you start to have end-organ malfunction, kidney malfunction, which affects your blood pressure. But there's so much more we could use on labs and take blood pressure out of it and actually diagnose preeclampsia better.

It's really frustrating because I think so many women's birth experiences are affected by this, and it leaves you with exactly what you've been describing, this inability to basically take your blood pressure anywhere, anytime because you have had this traumatic experience over it.

Oh, absolutely. It's not helpful when you're nervous and stressed and your heart rate's 120. Your blood pressure is going to go up according to that. It's supposed to. That's what it's supposed to do.

Yes, and they don't take any of that into account. And so that's why I really wanted to talk about it because, but when I was looking, and, like, I couldn't find anything about it, and I feel like, so I had four. There were four of us pregnant at the same time, and three of us got preeclampsia. The other two before they had the baby and were induced, and then me postpartum. And I'm like, this is crazy.

And we hear it constantly.

It's, yeah, it's constant. My blood pressure was high, a tiny bit of protein in the urine, and they're getting a preeclampsia diagnosis. That's what I'm saying. Like, we've got to find a better way to diagnose this illness because blood pressure is not it.

I don't know. I don't want to say I didn't have postpartum preeclampsia, but that's how it feels, you know. And I feel like a lot of women don't have true postpartum preeclampsia or don't have true preeclampsia, but they're being diagnosed, and then it's just causing this, you know, it's like the cascade of interventions, you know, once they get that.

And so, yeah, so I had a third home birth. It was beautiful. It was amazing. I mean, it was the hardest birth, but I never had a bad blood pressure reading. And my midwife at the end was like, "And I don't do postpartum blood pressure readings unless there's a reason to."

So, like, it was just, like, this very, you know, redemptive even of that situation.

So actually, the biggest thing that I would say is to truly take your birth. It is one of the greatest things that's ever going to happen to you, and take responsibility for it. Do your research, do education, just like you would anything else in your life. Do your education. Figure out what you truly want. Figure out your why. Why do you want this type of birth? Why do you, you know, want a birth in a hospital, birth at home?

Like, just do your research and don't just fall into the hands of the medical system because they really, they won't always fail you, but they will fail you a lot. And it is a conveyor belt, and you are going to, you are going to be at their mercy once you get there.

So I would just say, like, do your research, know your why, and you can have the most beautiful birth. It can be redemptive. It can be beautiful, and it should be beautiful.

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