#300 | Vaccine Rights, Research and Consent with Just the Inserts

I'm Cynthia Overgard, owner of HypnoBirthing of Connecticut, childbirth advocate and postpartum support specialist. And I'm Trisha Ludwig, certified nurse midwife and international board certified lactation consultant. And this is the Down To Birth Podcast. Childbirth is something we're made to do. But how do we have our safest and most satisfying experience in today's medical culture? Let's dispel the myths and get down to birth.

My name is Alexandra. I'm the founder of just the inserts, which is a resource for patients and parents to have training and resources from.gov information to make informed medical decisions. And really, this all started from my own necessity. I was an active duty military member, and I just had certain situations where I would have an adverse reaction to a pharmaceutical. But it wasn't really until I became pregnant that I really started researching all of the products that I accept medical wise, I had already been researching the lotions that I was using, the laundry detergent that I was using, certain things in the natural health world, that I realized the conventionally available products weren't necessarily the safest on the market or or the best for me, and so as I started researching more about medical products, I actually had a situation where I was at the midwife appointment and they handed me a one page document on the Tdap vaccine. And I remember thinking at the time, I'm not anti Vax, but it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to do an injection when I can't have certain other medications. I can't have raw fish, I can't have raw milk. Let me do a little bit more research, but at that point, I had already been so exhausted from research that I just wanted to outsource that to my own mom, so I asked her to research it for me, and a few days later, she overwhelmed me with so much information, and it was so polarizing and so fear based that it completely shut off my brain to accepting any of the content that she sent me. It was just very much of you will die if you accept this product, your baby will die if you accept this product. And then when I got onto social media, or when I started Googling it, I saw the other side of things, where you will die if you don't accept this product, or you'll baby die well if you don't accept it. And so I just felt that it was very polarizing, very overwhelming, very negative, and it was very taboo to talk about it. I remember asking some of my friends, and they would start to get uncomfortable in their seat, and I was genuinely just asking what they had experienced. Most of them had had children before me. So I just really wanted to get into what does the government say about these products, and what do manufacturers say about these products? Because I felt that if anyone was going to be the most insightful on the products. It should be the ones that make it and the ones that regulate them, which is the government. So I found Manufacturer inserts, and those are the legal documents that provide everything that the manufacturer wants you to know about that product. So drug interactions, contraindications, which are conditions that might predispose you to an increased risk to an adverse reaction, adverse reactions pre before the market goes or before the product goes to market, which is preclinical and clinical trials, and then post marketing, adverse reactions, which, those are the reactions that are reported to the government and manufacturers after a product goes to market. So I started researching all of this, and I started realizing the things that I thought that I knew about these products weren't actually true, or they were just a little flawed. And I started, started sharing my research on Instagram, and I got a lot of pushback from my friends, lots of heated debates. Some of them don't talk to me anymore still, just because it was just a very emotionally driven topic, and so my goal is to make it more having an open and respectful conversation about vaccines and then just about pharmaceuticals. While all of all of this was happening in parallel to this, I ended up having my baby and my daughter ended up accepting, I accepted the synthetic vitamin K injection for my daughter, and she ended up getting injured by it. And so while I was researching vaccines, I was dealing with an adverse reaction to the synthetic vitamin K injection, which isn't a vaccine, that's a drug. And I started realizing when I was going to pediatrician after pediatrician trying to seek healing for my daughter, they were scolding me on not accepting or following the vaccine schedule. And so then I started digging, digging into why is there so much mom guilt? Why is there so much hostility for a mother just asking very valid questions and having very valid fears around certain medical products? And so I started sharing more about the industry as a whole. I talk about how a product comes to market, the potential financial conflicts of interest that might be at the federal level or at the clinician level, or the external memberships that the clinician is a part of those influence those decisions as well. And so I just started putting everything out there on my personal Instagram, but I was getting shadow banned so heavily that I just prayed and asked for guidance on what to do next, and I started getting inspiration to start an account for just the inserts, and it blew up. Obviously, I wasn't alone. There were so many people that felt the same way I did, moms, dads, grandparents and just patients looking for credible. Full, transparent information about medical products. Unfortunately, the week before the COVID 19 vaccine was mandated, I was deleted off of Instagram. I wasn't allowed to come on for about eight months, but it gave me time to create my website, or I already had my website, but to really focus on the website, and I ended up having my second child during that time, so I was just in my postpartum bliss phase with him. And then last year, after I had my third child, I realized that the internet isn't forever, and sometimes things get wiped off the internet. And so it was really important to me to put all of my research and all of my training into a book. And so I created the book last year that published last early last fall, and then now I'm working on a pro informed consent provider directory where providers, all kinds of providers, birth workers, pediatrician, primary care, specialty care, who value informed consent are opting into this directory so that it makes it easier for us to find those providers who value informed consent. I'm

just going to jump right in with a big question.

Go ahead. I love it.

Why do you think that this is such an emotionally charged topic? Why do you lose friends over this? Why can we not have this conversation at a dinner party? Why do why do people hide what they do or not admit what they do? Or is it, is it an inner conflict that everybody is going through wondering if they're really doing the right thing? And

so I think there are multi there. It's multifaceted. There are so many different things when you talk about this conversation, but for me, what I see at the core of it is that we are constantly told, and it's constantly reinforced in our culture that these products are a gift to humanity and it's our civic duty to partake in them. And a lot of it will be talked about, uh, herd immunity, protecting your neighbor. And unfortunately, according to manufacturers in the government, what we've been told isn't entirely accurate. I talk a lot about shedding and how manufacture manufacturers will disclose that there are vaccine strains to some of these vaccines, and unfortunately, they can shed onto family members, friends, immunocompromised family members, and some of them also have, actually, most of them have a section called limitations of effectiveness, which it's very bare. All it says is this product may not protect everyone who is vaccinated. And so right there just those two facts sitting on the FDA website to totally obliterate the preconceived notion that you are partaking in something that is the good for everyone, just because that proves that it's not as effective as we think it is, and it's not without risk. There are plenty of people who have adverse reactions, and some of them fatal. And it's important for us to realize that if you are accepting a product that has that level of risk, you should be able to opt out of it if that is not the product that you deem to be the avenue to prevent or treat disease. And I think that we are so told, or it's dictated to us through legislation with mandates that in order for us to be healthy and to protect others around us, that we have to use this one product, this one set of segment of products in the pharmaceutical industry. And that's not entirely true, and we see that constantly in scientific literature and just in clinical observations, that there's natural immunity. There's other things that you can do for disease prevention. Washing your hands is a tool in disease prevention. When you start to research diseases and how they transmit, a lot of it is not washing your hands. So I think lack of public education, cultural pressures, I think those are the two big reasons why we get really uncomfortable when we start to have this conversation.

I would love to answer that question as well, because I have given this a lot of thought, and I've made a lot of observations, really, since the 90s. Long before I had children, it used to be completely safe and socially acceptable to tell anyone that you weren't vaccinating your children. It used to be utterly safe to tell anyone. There were no laws preventing any child from going to any school. People didn't friends. Didn't even ask each other when they were friends for years, they didn't ask each other about vaccines because there were fewer vaccines. It was totally fine. It was totally cool. And in the 90s, word got out about obviously, autism was unheard of. In the 80s, literally unheard of. When Rain Man came out, nobody knew what it was. In the 90s, it was spreading like crazy. That's when people started questioning vaccines. That's when a lot of people stopped. Vaccinating. And then I think pharmaceuticals got they said, we have to do something about this. Even in the early 2000s when I had my son in 2005 it was completely normal to meet women, hang out with women, and have women say, Oh, we don't vaccinate. No, we're not vaccinating. Then sometime very shortly after that might have even been the same year word spread through the media that I think Andrew Wakefield was, was it they said he fabricated the results. And there's obviously people saying none of that was true. I'm not saying one way or another, because actually not. I haven't dived into that, but that's when it all spread. He made it all up. This is ridiculous. Vaccines, don't and then they created the terms anti Vax. No one said it ever before. And people even like you, even like Robert F Kennedy, feel the need to say, or at least at one point you did feel the need to say, I'm not anti Vax. I heard Robert F Kennedy say, Well, I'm not anti Vax. And I want to say to him, don't say that. You don't, because it's been made out to be this terrible thing to be, we don't have to label ourselves pro vaccine, anti Vax. They came up with the do your part. They came up with herd immunity. They came up with the narrative that it's selfish not to vaccinate your child because you want everyone else to vaccinate so your child won't catch anything. But the truth is, because I know tons of families who don't vaccinate at all, they pity the families that do vaccinate, because they're so convinced vaccines are harmful. So that's a great point. This all happened in the past 20 years. All of it changed. Barbara Fisher, head of National Vaccine Information Center, worked with Ronald Reagan's Congress in the 80s to create the law around protecting families because her son was injured. Now she's outcast. PayPal stopped working, stopped accepting payments for her. She's doing the same great work she's done for 40 years. Everything has turned

well, and I will say I don't play with the anti Vax, pro Vax terms anymore. When I first started researching I did that was something that was on the tip of my tongue, and to be honest, I don't know exactly where that came from. I think, like I said, the cultural aspect of it, but now I don't play with it because, and I even said this in my book, I refuse to fit into a box that somebody else made for me. If someone defined anti Vax, the next person is going to have a different definition for anti Vax. Same with pro Vax, there are some pro vaxxers That will eat other pro Vax. There's because they don't accept all the schedule, or maybe they slip on tetanus every 10 years, or maybe they don't accept the flu, or maybe they don't say COVID. So that are you anti Vax because you don't accept those so I it's really messy. It I just don't even choose to address that, because it is very subjective terms, in my opinion, and that's why I always say I am pro informed consent. My goal is never to make the decision for you. I will share all the information. I will share even my own personal story, because I think it's important for parents to realize I receive so many DMS of guilt and shame and frustration on not knowing what you didn't know. But so that's why I share my story is, yes, it happens to everyone. Unfortunately, I think it's a failure of public education for us to not be aware of inserts, to not be aware of the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program to not be aware of VAERS and all these other things. But even with everything that I share, I would never want you to make a decision because I told you to do something or not do something. I want you to make a decision because you stepped into your authority, took responsibility for you and your child's health and made the best decision for you.

Totally agree with that. When I've had couples who said to me, but Cynthia, what did you do? I said, Listen, I'm happy to talk to you about the decisions we made, but I'm not going to do it so you can abdicate your own responsibility in doing your own research. You have to make the decision that's right for you. I made the decision with my husband. That's right for my family. Completely agree with you on that, and it's very easy. This is no longer a difficult conversation when we stick with the research and letting people make their own decisions. Now we're not trying to sway, we're not trying to defend,

right? And I think too, that when parents, when you become a parent, I believe that you are gifted an intuition that grows as you become a parent, as your child grows and so unfortunately, and you probably see this in the birth world, when a woman becomes pregnant, her first experience as a mother is sitting as an in an OB office or a midwife off midwife office, and instead of seeking that expert advice, many women outsource those decisions to those providers, and so it sets that precedent that for their entire journey through a pregnancy, birth, postpartum, early parenthood, all the way into late parenthood, it sets the precedent that they have to seek a provider to make this. Decisions for their child, and so right out of the gate, they are told you aren't smart enough to make these decisions for your child. You aren't smart enough to understand your own biology. You aren't smart enough to understand the hormones that are essential in pain reduction and progressing labor. Because I'm the expert. I'm the one who went to school. I'm the one that have the acronym acronyms behind my name, and that is such a flawed way of looking at it. And I really try to work very hard, and I weave this in through all of my resources, my free training course, my book, everything that I have on the website, all my social media, that you are the expert in your body and your child's body, and that healthcare is a service. Utilize it. Go find those great providers. There are plenty out there, I guarantee you, because they're all in my DMs, go find them, and then take their expert advice all of their experience. Maybe they know things that you don't. Maybe they have that objective view into physical evaluation or things that you might be dealing with. Take all that and then use it to make that final decision. Don't outsource that decision to them. It's your responsibility to be a steward of your body and your child's body.

Well, one thing we know for certain is that all people, all of us, included, can be triggered by things that we may be holding shame about, or things that we don't trust ourselves on, and that is probably a big part of this whole division. And why this is so controversial is some people trust their immune systems, some people trust their body. Some people struggle with that, and that's triggering.

Yeah, absolutely. I have so many conversations of parents that say, I go. I went through all of your highlights, I went through all your posts, I went through your website, I read your book, I did the training course, and yet I still don't know what to do. And that's when I kind of just have a pep talk with them and and say, Okay, well, what are your fears? What are you truly afraid of? And most of the time, if somebody has done that much research and still doesn't know what to do, their fear isn't of a disease. It isn't of a product. It's fear of upsetting their provider or a family or friend that is influencing them and projecting their own fears and insecurities onto them. And to me, that is a much deeper psychology that needs to be addressed, and that's not necessarily something that I can help with. I try to point people in the right directions, just to realize that it is a very unhealthy president to set that you accept a product to try to please someone else.

Well, we received a lot of questions from our followers that we would love to ask you,

okay. Got you okay with you? Absolutely I love it. Okay.

Great. Patricia. Before we do, did you have another follow up question or anything you wanted to ask Alexandra? No, I don't think so.

I don't think so. I think it's all going to come up. And we got hundreds of questions. So did you really? Yes, we just picked a few that, you know, we thought were best, and I'm sure that that will carry the conversation.

Okay, great. Well, let's get to this. Some of them are emotional, boundary type questions, and some are a little bit more directly about vaccines. I know you work with all pharmaceuticals. You're a proponent of informed consent when it comes to all drugs, that I think is so great and so necessary, so true that it doesn't need to be a separate topic. And it's so true that so many people are questioning drugs in general, but then vaccines Absolutely not. So I think when people stop questioning is always when a society is at risk. So I think the first question I want to ask you is this one came in from a few people. So I'm wondering your take on it, and what you know about this. They asked, Is it true that the black box warning only has to do with adults, and have these not been tested on babies, or does this have nothing to do with newborns and babies?

So what black box warning is basically a clinically significant adverse reaction that the FDA either forces a manufacturer or the manufacturer themselves puts at the top of a manufacturer insert, and it's actually just called box warnings now, and it's black box warning because there's a black outline onto this warning. So an example is ozempic. There's a box warning for thyroid cancer. There is now a box warning on benzyl alcohol for the synthetic vitamin K injection. It says that all neonates, all babies, should have the preservative free version, because benzo alcohol can lead to gasping syndrome, which that was recently added that wasn't there when I read the insert for the first time a few

years ago. But that's a big deal. That's unbelievable. It's, yeah,

I don't know how this hasn't been a huge news alert. I actually just stumbled across it because when I first did the insert that wasn't there. So most of. My deep dive, analytical deep dive doesn't address that. And then somebody asked me a question, and I happened to go to the answer because I couldn't remember off the top of my head. And then I saw that box warning at the top. So right off the bat, that kind of answers your question. There are box warnings for children specifically. But one thing that I have seen this just for other products, is someone will say, and typically it's someone who isn't a fan of my work, a critique will say, Well, that was just for elderly populations, or that was just for those with liver complaints. And the issue with that is there is a section in the manufacture insert called special populations. And within the special populations, they talk about pregnancy warnings, they talk about breastfeeding warnings, geriatric, pediatric, those with liver issues, just whatever special populations that they have data on, and that's where those specific warnings are. So that right there tells me that it's not just for one specific population, because there's a section for that later on in the answer. The other thing is, is I have asked several people who have said this to me to provide I'll say that's really interesting. I would love to learn more. Can you provide a doc, the research to support that claim? And so far, nobody's been able to provide that to me. So I don't necessarily see the validity in that. I'm always welcome to new information. If anybody wants to send that to me on Instagram, I'm happy to go over it. I just personally have not found a doc of a credible resource to support that.

Okay, so back to shedding. If a child is I want a word other than unvaccinated? Do you have one? Because vaccinated isn't the natural state. It's like, it's like, we don't say uncircumcised. We say,

do you have pharmaceutical free, generally, naturally

immune?

Yeah. Like, yeah, naturally immune. It's, again, pharmaceutical free is, like, unvaccinated. It's like, how do we in terms of, like, not being the absolute interventions, the way

that I kind of say it is just child, because then the vaccinated, there's a vaccinated child and then there's child.

That's why I don't say unmedicated birth, also, because natural state isn't unmedicated. But a lot of women say that. Okay, so for a child, right? There's child and there's and there's vaccinated child, I suppose. Okay, so should a parent be concerned if their child is around a cousin or a friend who has been recently vaccinated? We're back to shedding What's your advice or comment about that? I've probably

gone through the full spectrum of emotions on this so none of my children have had vaccines, and then I have not accepted any vaccines while pregnant, so I definitely understand this concern I started out now I was also this was during COVID and lockdowns and craziness, and I personally suspected that was, there was some kind of shedding event that occurred with COVID vaccines. Turns out there are breakthrough infections that the CDC now verifies which. So that was a valid concern. Turns out, so when I first started out, I was extremely anxious. I wanted to know everyone's vaccination status, and I would kind of score their social media pages, because at that time, they had been trained, if you got vaccinated, make sure you post on social media. So then everybody else gets vaccinated, which I actually saw that as a gift to identify those people that I should probably give them some time to deal with their immune systems and if they had breakthrough infections and things like that, so you can definitely be in that space. And I will say, after I have a baby, I do kind of cocoon myself, mostly just for my own postpartum mental health. I do try to simplify our schedule. I don't make a lot of commitments, I try to make sure that anybody comes is, you know, obviously not sick or things like that. The trouble is that there are certain vaccines that will suppress the symptoms. And so I do get questions from people saying, Okay, well, my mom or sibling or family member, they just got the tea dad, because they didn't want to bring pertussis, whooping cough to the baby. Unfortunately, if they are exposed to pertussis because of the vaccine, the vaccine has now suppressed their symptoms so they could be asymptomatic and could potentially expose the child. So I would recommend anyone that is having that conversation with a family member to point them to the mechanic, mechanism of action section in the Tdap manufacturer insert, because it states that the level of immunity for Pertussis is not known, and it might not be effective, but in terms of shedding just with your kids, going to school, going to daycare, things like that, I really just try to focus on what I can control. I try to focus and make sure that they're sleeping properly, that they're eating nutritious foods that are stress levels aren't unnecessarily high. There are certain herbs and tinctures that I will give them when I know that there are high there's a high likelihood that vaccinations are occurring. A lot of this is like right before school, when. People are trying to catch up with school physicals, annual physicals. A lot of vaccinations happen in late summer timeframe. So I will support their body by giving them a tincture that might support their liver or other things to process anything that might be shed upon them. And that's really all I can do. I can't put them in a bubble, and I know that there's vaccinated people out there, and I know that they're going to be exposed to that, so I just try to focus on boosting their immune system, supporting their immune system, as much as I can. And I'll tell we've had plenty of situations where I know we were shed upon, and that's just the best I can do. Can

you explain that or clarify the difference between shedding from the vaccine and just viral shedding from Yeah, naturally acquiring the infection. Yeah,

it's very convoluted. It's very messy. So shedding is typically referred to with their alive vaccine. So that's MMR, the measles, that's chicken pox, the varicella vaccine, shingles vaccine is live as well. Let's see what else. If you have an oral polio vaccine that's not administered in the United States, but it can be administered globally, and then people fly in and they can shed it that way. So that's a typical, traditional sense of shedding. Most of the time when you look at a medical document or thing, when they're talking about shedding, that's what they're going to be talked to. And that's why, when you see a that's why, when you see on the inserts, it'll say the vaccine virus strain. And that's why it's really important for when parents are reading about measles outbreaks or any kind of outbreaks, to try to seek out what caused that outbreak. Was it the vaccine virus, or was it the natural virus? Unfortunately, the CDC isn't as transparent as it was a few years ago. About that, it's much, much harder to find. But as informed consumers, we should be asking those questions and putting a little bit pressure to try to seek what caused those outbreaks

and is the fear around shedding simply that you might catch the illness, or wouldn't it be okay, because your own natural immune system would just fend it off, and now you have natural immunity. Yes,

however, some of these vaccine strains are more aggressive, and they might not be the natural I mean, they're science, they're man made. The the World Health Organization actually spoke of an inactivated measles vaccine that was pulled off the market because recently, recently vaccinated children were shedding upon other children, and then both of the children were experiencing a more aggressive form of measles. So there is a lot of concern with the vaccine strains, just from other research that's been done on other vaccines. And it's interesting. What I have noticed, and this is my own personal opinion, that whenever there is a issue with a certain product, whether it be a vaccine or pharmaceutical, most of the time, it really isn't addressed until a new product comes onto the market to replace that product, and that's when the pharmaceutical companies will start talking about the issues from the previous product. So I do have a feeling that a lot of the issues we're seeing now, we won't really know them, and they won't be publicly available until a new product's on the market. Yeah,

I recently was listening to a podcast with Bob Sears, who was talking about this, and I think it was the rotavirus, if I remember correctly, that they had a very harmful version of that vaccine on the market, knowing that it was causing severe harm, and they did not take it off the market for years, until they had a replacement. Yep,

yep. Same happened with polio. It started out with an inactivated polio injection. It caused several deaths, and then they came out the oral oral polio, and then they didn't phase that out until they had reformulated the inactivated polio injections. It's unfortunate, and it does sound like a conspiracy, but it is true. There's lots of history to support this, and that's why, as a parent, it's a valid fear to worry about those potential shedding events. And you can be so consumed with that fear and but to me, that almost becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, because that fear will cause anxiety, and you'll it'll lower your immune system, and it'll lower your body's response to be able to handle that.

And how could we possibly know? How could you possibly track all that? That sounds like something that could just set you into a serious spiral of fear and stress, and that is not helpful. No,

it's not. And so we just try to do the best that we can. And I've trained my kids from the from the jump, that when they go out in public, they don't touch their eyes, nose, their mouth, that when we get home, we wash our hands. And I am also very aware of any friends if their children are following vaccine schedule. I kind of track their children's ages, and I know when well baby visits happen. And I try to create a little bit of a buffer. I don't know exactly what each vaccine some of them will say when peak shedding occurs. Some of them will be a little bit will give a range. And so I do try to if I know that my child. Might be dealing with a cold or their immune system is lower then I don't want to introduce additional exposure, and, you know, we might delay play dates for a few weeks or something like that. And it doesn't have to be hostile. It doesn't have to be, you know, this aggressive thing, but it's more of just you being protective of your child and not putting them in something in harm's way that you know that could potentially happen.

Okay, I have some other questions here, other than you as a resource, where do you get your information from? Or where do you suggest that couples get their information from?

Oh, there's we could stay here for hours. There's so many great resources.

What would you say? So I would say NBC National Vaccine, yes, center, okay,

yes. I have them listed. I have a whole resources section in the back of my book. NBC is one of them. They have an excellent, excellent state law mandate resource. And I send this almost daily to people that are asking about exemptions. They've done a fantastic job. I would say, stand for health freedom is doing a great job tracking legislation, legislative efforts. She actually just posted about West Virginia the executive order for them to get their religious exemptions back, which is phenomenal. Actually, I say phenomenal, but I personally don't think a society that values informed consent should have mandates, but also it's just baby steps. And then I would say physicians for Informed consent is a great resource. Children's Health defense is a great resource. Dr Bob Sears, he just did an interview with Alex Clark that I thought was really, really wonderful. It just depends, too on how someone might learn. I get constantly asked, you know, I was talking with my family member, and they weren't open to any of these resources because they didn't feel like they were smart enough to consume the content. And so I recommend documentaries, actually. Andy Wakefield has plenty of documentaries. The Vax series 1986 is a great one. I actually saw that in person. I was able to meet him in person. If you haven't heard his side of everything that happened, I would highly suggest people go to I believe it is on his 1986 website. You can Google this. He has an entire web page on every single thing that happened during that controversy and explains his side of things. And I thought it was very, very well done. Let's see. There's, there's a lot out there that was a great list. Okay, for a while, exactly.

Again, it keep this quick and easy, because I know your knowledge makes it difficult to answer anything too succinctly, because there's such a history to every aspect of this. But briefly, how did the current schedule come to be

we? Okay? The National Tribal vaccination act of 1986 removed liability from manufacturers. After that, the the schedule blew up. There are unelected bodily I want

to slow down here. I want people and the importance of what you just said 1986 this is exactly what happened. People were starting to sue vaccine manufacturers because injuries were abounding, and pharmaceuticals went to Ronald Reagan said, we're getting out of the vaccine business. That's what they said. You're nodding. And Ronald Reagan said, Well, what will it take to keep you guys going? And they said, You need to indemnify us. And that's exactly what happened once we then they were indemnified. Which is, which is unbelievable. When you think of our society, it is unbelievable that you would indemnify any corporation from harm to a human being or to a child. It's unbelievable that it happened. But it did. That's when they also made hospitals, quote, nonprofits, but still allowed them to make fortunes and profits, but they stopped paying federal income tax same time this all happened, then what you were saying was the vaccine schedule blew up because they were like, Oh my gosh, this is such an opportunity. We're not going to lose all this money in lawsuits anymore. And that's when Congress set up that fund to pay injured families, which, of course, takes years and years, and almost nobody actually gets a payout, right? You're with on the same page with all that so

far and and I think it's important to identify that all of the deck, all the funds from Congress to pay for vaccine injury are from taxes on vaccines. Yep. So every parent that accepts a vaccine is paying for injury and death caused by vaccines. I think that's incredibly important to understand. When I first came across it, I was completely blown away. I couldn't believe that that was actually in our

taxpayers. Well, the same thing happened during COVID. But Okay, so back to what you were saying. Now, it's very

hard to do rapid fire. It is oh no, no, it doesn't move.

It doesn't mean you don't have to. Try to speak quickly. We're not timing. You don't worry about it. I don't want to add pressure to you. But briefly, how did the schedule come to be? Because I would know around 1970 there were 23 vaccines. Now there's approximately 70. So when and how did it ramp up?

ASIP So CDC has an advisory board of people that are prior or some kind of industry expert on pharmaceuticals, specifically vaccine. They come together and they decide what gets added to the schedule, and it starts in the FDA, and then it goes into the CDC, and unfortunately, many of these members have waivers on financial potential conflicts of interest. And so I have sat in you can do this. It's public. It's publicly available for you to sit in these meetings. And I've sat in and listened to them, and they go over the potential benefits, risks, complications, things like that of a vaccine, they vote it gets added. So it is not anything that me as a civilian can vote on. I don't get to elect these people. These people are put into place by the CDC and by the FDA, and they're the ones that are in charge of putting the vaccines on the market. And it's really important too to understand there is no federal, federally wide vaccine mandate for children. All of the mandates are at the state level, and so the CDC cannot mandate a vaccine. It is through your state legislation that that mandate happens, and unfortunately, many states have outsourced their authority to the CDC. They will say in their legislation that the required vaccines for a child to go to school, they have to follow the CDC schedule. That, to me, is a huge flaw. I think that was a failure upon those states that did that, because you just took all of your authority and you gave it to someone that's not even elected. There are states that say each specific vaccine, when that needs to be done, these are required, and that's why I think NVIC is resource is fantastic, because it differs on your state. It differs between where you are, especially if you're talking about daycare, private college, employment, all these different things that vary. So I can't speak intelligently on every single one, because it's so vast, and they have a team that tracks all of this. But according to the CDC schedule, that is just a recommendation. It's not mandated.

States have given the CDC, that authority that doesn't seem legal. Some

of them have, yes,

some of them have, why not? They can.

It just doesn't feel right. I guess there it doesn't. They're

just saying we follow, yeah. I mean, so I, what I don't think is legal is when they say you don't get an exemption, I think that's not legal. And I first happened in California in 2015 and I'm really shocked it still stands.

And now I want to say one other thing about how the schedule and how it's evolved from what 22 vaccines in the 70s to what is it now? 7278

something like that. It varies depending on what time of year it is,

I believe. And I think we'll see this come true. If a vaccine can be made for an illness, they will make it and they will put it on the schedule. If they can come up with a vaccine for pink eye, for herpes, for cold sores, whatever ear infections, it'll be there.

There's I actually just saw a real I farm. I follow a lot of pharmacists on my personal Instagram because I like to see what's coming down the line. And there's actually a UTI vaccine, a spray, a mist that they're working on. It's not available in the US, but I just saw, just saw that all across my feed, and I just took a big sigh, because it's just, yeah, you're absolutely right. They anything. And especially with mRNA, it's so much cheaper to produce that and manufacture and quickly to get it quickly out on the market. So I think we will see a lot more mRNA products on the market soon, right

before HPV came out in 2007 I remember, I think it was Merc who announced we're getting into the teen market, but they just were right out there on their sleeve. We're getting into the teen market. All right, let's get through a couple more of these. So one of them that this is this is going to be kind of interesting to hear your take on this. I guess I know what ours is. But why are so many medical professionals ill informed on this topic?

That's a great question. And to me, based on all of the medical professionals that I talk to, it starts in school. Yep, the pharmaceutical influence that happens right when they start school, sometimes even before that, when they are receiving scholarships in high school, they are already. Influenced by pharmaceuticals. I have had also so many people pharmaceutical companies. I've also had so many people that were office managers at a pediatrician's office or a doctor's office tell me about the lunches that they go on and certain pharmaceutical reps that have come in and the way that they're presented the manufacturer inserts aren't necessarily about the full informed consent. It's about comparing their product to a competitor's product. I've also had pharmaceutical representatives current and previous confirm all of these. To me, there is an excellent movie. It's actually quite vulgar. It isn't, I wouldn't watch it around children, but it is called pain hustlers, and it's with Chris Evans, and I'm forgetting who Emily Blunt, and I watched this movie, and I was completely floored the entire time I was watching it, because it was just just validated everything that people have told me in my DMs from pharmaceutical reps, doctors office managers of how a lot of these relationships are, uh, not the most up and up that you would think. And I do think that has to do with doctors being ill informed because they think that they're getting information from these people from pharmaceutical companies. But unfortunately, it's very flawed, or it's very manipulated data. And so many clinical trials that I look at actually skip through the clinical trial section when I go through inserts, most of the time, because as someone, I'm trained in business, and I did very well in my statistics, statistics class and my studies, all the studies that I done, did with that. And you can manipulate any data if you eliminate certain outliers, if your placebo isn't a true saline placebo or sugar pill, if you eliminate certain people in the control group, there are so many ways that you can manipulate manipulate that data, and unfortunately, as just a regular old Joe looking at it, it's almost impossible To find out where those issues are, how some some studies, are given the dose 200 times what it should be. And so it's just, it's really hard to try to weed through that, and that's why I focus on the post marketing adverse reaction section, because those are the those are the reactions after a product went into market that were reported and unfortunately, circling back to your question, many, many, many doctors and medical professionals do not know that adverse reactions are even a possibility, let alone reported and put on manufacturer inserts on the FDA website.

Yeah, you mentioned the interview with Bob Sears and Alex Clark. I recently listened to that, and I highly recommend anyone who's interested in this topic to listen to that podcast episode. But he said straight up in that episode that universities are funded by the pharmaceutical companies, and that so the medical schools, these providers are being their education is funded by these companies, so the companies are influencing the curriculum. So all they are learning are the benefits of vaccines and nothing else well,

and there's an infectious disease scientist. She actually found my clovid post, and it really shifted her entire understanding of the industry, because her mother had taken Clomid, it's a fertility drug, and she had taken her Clomid to get pregnant with her, and she was born with only one thumb. She has a abnormality on her hand, and there are fetal abnormalities that are listed as known potential conflict or known potential adverse reactions on the Clomid insert. And so it got her researching. She was actually making vaccines when she found that post, and she started researching all the other things on my website and realizing that she was never taught this. And so we have a she actually wrote the glossary of my book. She's a fantastic resource, and I really value her insight and her experience and her story. But she talks about how when she was in school, they didn't talk about any of the inserts. They just talked about how effective it was. They talked about how anyone that questioned it wasn't smart. They made fun of who was it? Was it Jenny McCarthy? I think who it was, who? Yes, yeah, and her kind of painted at as this crazy mom who didn't really know anything and and then they brought up the story of Benjamin Franklin and how he his dying regret was that he didn't get his son inoculated with the smallpox vaccine. And I actually just did a post on this, because it is now that story is being emotionally used to, in my opinion, medically coerced parents that are vaccine hesitant. And I went to the National Archives and actually started reading Benjamin Franklin, Franklin's letters and some of his articles in the Philadelphia Gazette. And actually, his son was struggling with dysentery. He was going. To inoculate him, but he ended up not because he had had long standing dysentery. And at the same time around, when her his child died, they were using this practice in Philadelphia, and he was known to cause epidemics because they would actually this was before vaccine. It was 60 years before vaccine was even created. They took people that had smallpox, they took part of the smallpox, cut open another person, and put that smallpox posture into the healthy person. And so it could sometimes cause smallpox for that person, and that person could die, or it could cause an epidemic in the local area. So here I'm reading this. All this is on the National Archives, and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, even their own history of what they use to try to support how long standing the safety and effectiveness of these products are is flawed. It's not even historically accurate, and this is what they're learning in school. Yeah,

I read a book. I think it was how to raise a healthy child in spite of your doctor. I think that was the book. And the doctor in the book said that a third of, I think he said a third of his lectures were taught by pharmaceutical reps. But I have to say, for the doctors who who allow themselves to obtain their education from an outside source and a biased one at that, I just don't respect that. I mean, what's wrong with doing the research themselves. This is the field of work. They're considered the experts. So if I were considered the expert in my field, I would certainly want to make sure that I'm validating all the data myself. And when you do go and look at that data, as you were saying about statistics, so often, the conclusion of any study doesn't match the data actually shown in the study. So you really have to read the whole thing and look for the flaws, because most studies are rife with flaws and biases and conflicts of interest. One last question for you, how would you recommend dealing with judgment from close friends or in laws or family members who don't respect your decision to have your child as is.

Right off the bat, I would say that you have no obligation to share personal medical decisions with anyone. So if somebody's demanding to know your vaccination status, just know upfront that you don't have to. You're not required to share that with them, and that's just right off the bat. If you don't feel comfortable going in that conversation, you don't have to go into that conversation. Now, if you are willing to go into that conversation, I do have a section in the training course in the book called How to have productive conversations about medical products, and it's all about coming from the sense of love and truth, and trying to find credible resources together, researching together, going through my root of fear, exercise together to understand what exactly is that fear coming from, because most of the emotional anger that we see is rooted in some kind of fear. So if there is a family member that is judging you or projecting you know their fears onto you. If you do feel like you want to go down that path with them, you can help them along with the research and ask open ended questions. You know, why are you upset? What are you most concerned about? May I share information with you, or I even say too? It can be simple as, hey, I listened to this podcast. I read this article, I would love your thoughts on it, and what that communicates to them is, one, that you care enough about this subject, that you read something or listened to something about it, and two, you care enough about their perspective and their insight. And hopefully that would communicate to them that you truly do care about them, and that this doesn't have to be such a polarizing and aggressive topic that it can be something that we have open respectful conversation about. Caveat to all of that, if somebody is using you as a punching bag for their misinformation or their preconceived notions about certain products in the industry, boundaries might have to be set up, and that is okay to do as well. There are certain people where they might be upset about your personal medical decisions, and that just might be something that you have to create a boundary with them and state. I'm willing to have this conversation, but in a respectful and honorable way, and before you even step into that conversation with them, kind of set those boundaries in your mind. So then when those boundaries are being crossed, then you can safely remove yourself from that conversation.

Well, thank you. A tremendous amount of useful information in this conversation. Thank you. We need a three hour episode. I was about to say we could, I'm I'm scratching the surface. We're just scratching the surface. We'll have to do a part two.

Thank you for joining us at the Down To Birth Show. You can reach us @downtobirthshow on Instagram or email us at Contact@DownToBirthShow.com. All of Cynthia’s classes and Trisha’s breastfeeding services are offered live online, serving women and couples everywhere. Please remember this information is made available to you for educational and informational purposes only. It is in no way a substitute for medical advice. For our full disclaimer visit downtobirthshow.com/disclaimer. Thanks for tuning in, and as always, hear everyone and listen to yourself.

These were, these were wonderful, wonderful questions. I can tell that this is definitely something you and your audience are very passionate about, and I think this is going to shift our. Culture. It's conversations like this that will help everybody realize that this is really just about informed consent.